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Joined: Jan 29 2009
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Hey guys, well my insurance kicked in, which isnt much because I am just a part time worker. Anyways, basically I want to get off of Norco because of the APAP and switch to generic roxicodone. I am not too familiar with this so please correct me if I say something wrong. Is it basically percocet without the APAP?

As far as I know they do not make hydrocodone without some form of tylenol, ibuprofin, aspirin.... and thats what really hurts your liver so wouldnt it make sense to switch to roxicodone? I looked up the prices and its only about $10 more which isnt much.

Okay... so should I be straight up and ask my doctor to switch to roxicodone because I want to take a medication without tylenol? I mean I already take 30mg MS Contin q.i.d. and I take 2-3 Norco for breakthru pain. I am not in pain management so I go to a primary care. He has been cool with me and when I first started seeing him back in October he told me once I get health insurance he was going to refer me to pain management.

Well now its February and he hasnt mentioned me leaving his practice and I figure its an easy $82 a month just to bs with me for 3 minutes and then write my scripts. I just dont want him to get spooked by me requesting another, stronger medication and then want to pass me off to pain management.

I hate pain management. There is just so much bs you have to put up with.

Oh and Kelly, or Woodstock.. if you read this... which MS Contin generic was the bad one? My pharmacy has been switching it up on me and I have had the watson, endos, and mallies. Personally I felt like the endos were worthless. Penny for your thoughts?

 

Joined: Jan 29 2009
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User offline. Last seen 2 weeks 4 days ago.
Buehler.... Buehler.....

So no one want to throw in their two cents on the matter? I mean I see my doc on Tuesday and I dont want to jeopardize having to go to pain management. Hes a nice guy. I mean this guy as a a primary care was willing to prescribe me schedule II narcotics when the doctor before him (pain management) that I only saw for a month labeled me a depressed drug seeker and I need to be on cymbalta and he didnt believe in breakthru pain

Well anyone have any experience with roxicodone and want to share what they think?

Joined: Nov 3 2009
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Though I'm not 100% sure...

And you could figure it with some simple searching on the internet... Im just on my iPhone, and would probably do it for you if I had a computer in my lap...

But they do make vicoprofen... Which is cut with advil instead of APAP, and I'm pretty sure, 90% probably, that advil is processed through the kidneys, AND they make doses of vicoprofen with lower relatve amounts of APAP/NSAID in reguards to their relative ceilings go as far as how many mg per day you can ingest "safely"...

I hope this makes sense... If not let me know and I'll try and rearticulate it... But if it makes sense, and I am right, why is hydrocodone/APAP the "standard" in hydrocodone/something medicines, and why is there not just a pure hydrocodone cap/tablet?

Sorry to potentially steal your post, but hopefully that can help at least not kill your organs as fast.

-reed

Joined: Dec 3 2009
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It sounds like you already

It sounds like you already know what you want, so just ask the doctor if he thinks oxycodone would be appropriate for your level of pain.  Personally, I think Norco 10/325 work great for pain also (hydrocodone, which you have been taking - only the above norco has less APAP) and you can take up to 10 or 12 a day without exceeding old APAP limits.  But oxycodone is a step upward in potency and then there are simply no APAP concerns.

Personally, I think 15 and 30 mg oxycodone instant release tablets are the best pills out there for treating moderate/severe pain.  They aren't sedating and they are simply the most effective oral narcotics available as far as bioavailability.  (in other words, most of the drug goes to work on the pain rather than being side-tracked by the liver)  But they don't work for some people and they now have a stigma attached to them as they are one of the most popular drugs of abuse.  But then I'm sure you already know that.

Good luck in getting what you actually need.

Joined: May 28 2009
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User offline. Last seen 5 hours 43 min ago.
took me a few minutes to get here

I get the mallikroft generic 60mg, 60 quanity at $76  imprints 60 front side  big M on reverse, I found them just as effective as Avinza.

Woodstock

Tux
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Joined: Mar 26 2009
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User offline. Last seen 4 weeks 3 days ago.
Hi ya JJ

Long time no see. I hope you are doing well. I can tell you that hydrocodone without APAP is a CII drug. I haven't heard of it being scripted to anyone, but that doesn't mean anything. My dog took straight hydrocodone for her spinal issues, because dogs can't take ibuprofen or tylenol. My vet would get them from the local pharmacy.

Oxycodone, from experience with my husband taking them, comes with and without APAP. He gets oxycodone IR, and he will take half of a 500 mg Tylenol, as they work better for him with the tylenol. This way he can control the intake of APAP, and keep it under 1500MG per day.

I use hydrocodone 7.5 w 200 mg ibuprofen. I just found out I have a herniated disc in T-8, and had my fentanyl doubled. The vico isn't working for BT right now and my blood pressure is through the roof from my pain level. I think if you talk to the doc about using oxy IR with no APAP, it would be ok.

Besides, we know you aren't a depressed drug seeker. Some docs just don't get it. Yell Take care, dude.

Joined: Jan 29 2009
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Thanks for the responses

Thaks for the replies Tux, Woodstock, Elderstatesman and dnn

Sorry it took me so long to repy. Got a busy schedule. Its not that I really want to switch to oxycodone as much as I want to stop taking the APAP. Norcos 10/325 are good for my pain. They dont make hydrocodone without some kind of tylenol, aspirin, or whatever. I will be 27 next month... I will be honest... I still drink from time to time and by the time I am 40 I dont want my liver or kidneys closing up shop on me. I would be a hermit if I didnt drink and its definitely not fun being the only person not drinking. People have no clue I have chronic pain or the old friends I still hang out with forget because I look normal and act normal now.

Anyways, its not like I can say... "Hey doc, I think my norco is interferring with my drinking, so can you switch me to a stronger opioid that doesnt have the harsh tylenol?" I also try to drink many hours later after taking my Rx. Currently we are short staffed at my job and these double shifts and school are killing my body. When I first got this doc about 5 months ago I was good with just 2 norcos plus the 4 MS Contin. I didnt want to press my luck since I have already been labeled that my pain stems from my depression and not the spinal fusion, bone graph (or is it graft?) from the him and the rods in my back. I was going to ask really just to switch it to 3 a day or ask about the 15mg roxicodone generic.

I had a decent pain doc in California that gave me 3 MS Contins a day and 4 Norcos, but I was still healing and I wasnt working.

Now I am in Austin, Tx and I drive all the way to San Antonio just to see my doc.

WOODSTOCK... whats up? Yeah... out of the watson, mallies, and endo I like the mallies. I HATE THE ENDOS!!!

TUX... good to hear from you. Thanks for the advice

I also want to thank everyone that stuck behind me and gave me advice since my wreck. I know I had a lot of %?%!*#&& and complaining, but you guys were there for me and gave me some great knowledge and advice. I know I only get on once in a blue moon, but I will try and get on more and maybe I can help someone that is new that is in a similar position I was in.

Joined: Jan 29 2009
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Appt. earlier today

Well I never once brought up the roxicodone, nor did I bring up one extra norco a day. I figured I should be open and honest and tell the doctor I what I think would be a better route, but instead I just went in and kept with the same prescription. I figured things could be way worse thinking about how underdosed I was before. Everything was fine until I reminded him I will be running out of xanax after the first visit when he wrote me 4 or 5 refills (cant remember exactly) Anyway, he wrote my my scripts for pain meds, but the second I reminded him I was running out of xanax he got tense and then said, "I think I would be more comfortable referring you to pain management."

My worst nightmares came true and I didnt even mention changing my medication and he still wants to pawn me off on pain management. I call the two business cards he gave me and at the top they both said "Intervential Pain Management" Basically that means... These doctors dont believe in opioids for pain relief and they want to give you anti-depressants and spinal injections because they can make a few thousand off one spinal injection.

I called them to get some information and possibly set up an appt. The first place talked to me for a few minutes and then asked me for my phone number and they said they would call me back. Sounds like they dont want me as a patient. The second place told me that they never heard of my insurance so call back at a different time.

Im back at square mother lovin one. Sorry, I needed to vent. Now I feel like the clock is ticking. 29 days before I run out of medication, that alone makes me feel like a panic attack is coming on. Second, school just started and I dont need any distractions. Third, I cant afford to be switching doctors, paying new patient fees, and spinal injections. I am only a part time worker so my health insurance is crappy.

Joined: Jul 18 2009
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JJ, have you tried the

JJ, have you tried the student health center? It might be a last resort available to you. I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'd be beyond mad too. Let us know if you get in with a PM dr.

Joined: Jan 29 2009
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Student Health Center

Well I wont be transferring to University of Texas for at least one more semester after this one so I dont know how much Austin Community College can help. I actually grabbed a pamphlet off the wall about some kind of health insurance from the school, but I havent really looked into it. Currently I think its actually costing me more now that I have health insurance because I max out at $360 for the year that insurance will cover and the prices I get at the mom and pop pharmacy are just about exactly the same before I had insurance.

I just think I am up a ____ creek without a paddle.

I really dont understand why he cant keep treating me. NOTHING changed in my prescriptions. I do appreciate him actually treating me in the first place since he isnt pain management, but I am a broke, broken, college student that cant afford to keep searching for a decent doctor.

Looks like I am going to have to try a pain management again. Every single one in Austin is "Interventional" pain management.

Does anyone know the cost of trigger point injections? I know thats the first thing the doctor is going to want to do and then he will also switch out my pain meds with anti-depressants.

Just another day in the life of 20 something with chronic pain that cant get proper help.

 

 

Joined: Jun 17 2009
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I just looked up my insurance

I just looked up my insurance records and my PM billed my insurance $58.00 for my trigger point injections.... but watch out for facet injections, insurance was billed $800 for those because it's considered a "procedure"...   good luck.

Joined: Oct 6 2005
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Since he is refering you to

Since he is refering you to an interventional pain management, its possible that he will still be your controlled substance script writter but wants you to go to someone that has the knowledge and ability to do trigger point injections and teach you other ways to deal with your pain. My dads doc offered this kind of arrangement to him, but since his doctor does trigger points he has no motivation to try dual treatment with two doctors.  Anyways, when your doc refered you to pain management you should have just said "Can you do something like trigger point injections here?" or "What kinda things can they do, that we cant do here?" or " I was thinking more physical therapy might help me keep my pain atleast where its at". It would show that you are willing to try and reduce your pain non medically and would keep your meds were hes comfortable for the time being. It is very possible if you start doing some of the non medicinal treatments your pain will reduce enough to where what you are taking will feel like its working better.  All this aside, most doctors ecspecially doctors that are treating you with CII opiates are very scared of scripting benzo's and I totally agree with them. If you want to keep this doc lay low on the Xanax and try to not take as many, so at your next appt. you can tell him "actually, I think I only need 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 etc. of the normal amount, Ive been doing relaxtion stuff like breathing excercises and not drinking caffeine at night so I could cut down".

Joined: May 28 2009
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JJ:

DID your Dr. make you another appointment with him,      Woodstock

Joined: Feb 22 2009
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JJ! Sorry I didn't see your

JJ! Sorry I didn't see your question to me. I haven't been on the board much lately and last week was away from my computer all week. You had the same reaction as me to the Endo morphine...it x*#&s! I was doing great on morphine for well over 2 years. For about 90% of the time I was on Mallinkrodt ER morphine, which worked well for me. Then more recently when I was still on it I was given Watson ER morphine. That worked fine too. However, there were 2 occassions early on where I was given Endo morphine and it didn't work at all, so from that point on I always asked before getting my scripts filled because Endo morphine is worthless. Unfortunately, the ONLY morphine around before I had to change meds was the Endo so finally I had to ask my doctor to switch my meds. Now I'm on Oxycontin and it's working fine for me too. I prefer the morphine, but at least I'm still getting pain relief. It never ends though...now my new medicare advantage plan doesn't have Oxycontin on its formulary so I have to try to get a PA. Of course they want me to do "step therapy" which I've done, just not while on their insurance. In the past I've had insurance companies literally make me go through their step therapy to the point where my doctor literally was writing a new drug once ever 2-3 days just to get me through the "steps" as quickly as possible. What a waste of money on the insurance company's end. Hopefully this company will take my doctor's word.

Joined: Jan 29 2009
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My never ending uphill battle

Well when I went to make an appointment for next time they said, "Well how about you just call us if you need an appointment later on." Currently I just finished typing up a letter to the doctor laying everything on the table. Telling him how I wouldnt have a job, nor would I be a full time college student thats actually an honor student now. My medications have made me life livable again. I even recently renewed my 24Hour Fitness membership that just ran out last month. I paid 3 years up front and now it only costs me a $100 a year for the rest of my life to have a membership there.

I still havent gone yet because I am so busy, but I been looking forward to doing cardio. I wont be able to lift weights of course, but I am sure just doing cardio will help. I was a solid 6'3'' 245lbs before my wreck. Now I am only 220lbs. I wish I could just knock out my frustrations with one of my old workouts.

Kelllllllly, so good to hear from you. Yeah endo is the worst.

Also going to one doctor is already putting me in the poor house, I can just imagine taking on a second doctor. The first pain doctor I saw in Austin after moving to California said he didnt prescribe psychoactive drugs... meaning he wouldnt refill my xanax which my pain doctor in California would write. But he was more than happy to try and prescribe me cymbalta... kind of fishy right? He actually wanted me to spend more money to see another doctor knowing I had to borrow money just to pay for the outrageous first appointment fee but he really does prescribe psychoactive drugs. I think he gets a cut from Eli Lilly every script he writes. That was the doctor I only saw for like 2 months before he dropped me from his practice. He couldnt even tell me to my face... I got something in the mail saying I needed to pick up a package from the post office. I was all happy trying to think he sent me something nice, but all it was an official letter that I had to sign to prove I got the letter that I was kicked out of his practice for no good reason. Oh wait... I am a broke college student that cant make him as much money as other doctors.

Is 3mg of xanax really that much? I mean I am a big guy and have had the same dosage for about a year.

Joined: May 28 2009
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in regards to 3mg of xanax

I assuming you mean 1mg every 8 hours no thats not too much, but some medication shy Dr. don t want a person to take 1mg at bedtime, I agree with you JJ that a person that weighs more needs more to metabalize than someone that weighs 99 pounds soaking wet.

Woodstock

Joined: Jun 17 2009
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Woodstock... you bring up a

Woodstock... you bring up a great point...  being under medicated basaed on size / weight.  Of course a persons own metabolism will decide the correct dosage but I think many Dr's prescribe a "normal" dose not taking in consideration of a persons body mass, weight, whatever you want to call it.... you're right, a person that weighs 225 could need a different dose than a person weighing 100 lbs.   When I first was put on opiates at my PM, they started me on 7.5/325 percocet bid....   I'm 6'2 240...   this could work for some I guess but not I...    I did actually bring this up at one appt though and the Dr agreed that I was underdosed for my size...   I'm not fluffy, just big boned!!  Wink  ..

Joined: Jan 29 2009
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asmmw

My point exactly. I am sure 1mg every 8 hours for a girl that weighs 100lbs might knock her out, but I am a 6'3'' 227lbs according to my last weigh in.

I used to do phase I medical studies for cash and I had to slim down for my body mass index because the study drug wouldnt affect my plasma levels like a 130lb person. I would try and raise my heals to get measured taller to make the weight limit for the studies. Some of them wouldnt even take people over 220lbs period.

So I think its makes perfect sense that bigger people probably arent affected by the same doses as a smaller person. Seems like a no brainer. Just like alcohol. They have those alcohol charts inside some bars and it says for your weight or age how many drinks is acceptable to drive. Of course the more you weigh the more alcohol you will need to drink.

That reminds me of that movie "Bad Santa" when Billy Bob Thorton is drinking with his elf partner in crime who is played by a little person. He wants him to take another shot with him and he turns it down so Thorton's character calls him a wuss and he responds, "Im 87lbs you moron" or something close to that

Joined: May 28 2009
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they

do take weight into consideration on some injections I ve had to take in the pass, but don t recall if they were antibotics or what.

Woodstock