March 23, 2007 - 5:07pm
OK, so i said i'd never be back...wel, i was WRONG! i was wrong about a lot of things.
first let me apologize for being rude to gtrpliayer back a few weeks ago. you were just trying to help me, and i went off b/c i was in a bad place.
well, i'm in a bad place again now..REAL BAD.
i did take myself off of hydrocodone and oxycontin, and then i came clean with my wife and to others i love deeply and admitted i had got out of control with using xanax too.
WELL, gtrplayer was right when he said i'm too foucused on being an addict, but i don;'t think you know my history very well either. and you don't really need to, but it should be said that i've dealt with INTENSE fear, phobias since i can remeber..even as a young child i never felt comfortable in my own skin...then bad things happened as they do in life and i began experiencing UNREAL panic attacks at age 13..had NO IDEA what it was..didn't know panic was even a real thing.
i didn't tell anyone and then about 5 months later i broke b/c i didn't know how to deal with it and told my mom.
anyway, i refused drugs and counseling and went on throughout my high school years hating drugs and acohol and not doing any of it even under the weight of my ongoing panic attacks that i hid from everyone b/c i wanted to be normal.
should've told people b/c white knuckling it on my own just made the panic stronger and more often.
hence, when i got a job and married i began to talk to my dad again and i was REALLY haveing panic, and developed allergy induced asthma...feelings of suffocating and choking associated with panic became REAL and no longer just symptoms of a panic attack, but co=operated with the panic to make it ???$*.
thus, i started taking xanax from my dad...i know, should've got help from a doctor and delt with the panic in the first place, but i was desperate for relief.
ANYWAY, i did begin to take more than prescribed (up to 3mg a day prescribed and on a bad day i got up to 8mg once...but usually an average of 5-6mg toward the end a couple weeks ago.
SO, to the present, i am currently 10 days clean of xanax and SUFFERING like a banshee!!!
i was using more than 5-6mg whilst withdrawing from hydrocodone and all that, then i came down to 5-6mg, then my doctor took me from that down to just 2mg extended release for maintenance...i thought i was gonna die...UNTIL I REALLY EXPERIENCED ???$* when i checked myself in for detox.
they gave me 4mg of ativan for 2 days, then cold turkeyed my @!^ and just gave me phenylbarbitol for the rest of the 7 days i was there.
the place had poor air circulation and i couldn't use any of my allergy meds and my throat and nose and chest closed up on me and inflamed and my head was TWISTED...i was and am in AGONY and TORMENT.
i honestly think i'm experinecing delirium...i'm jjust ramblingg on here so i'm sorry.
my question of advice is this...i'm in ???$*..i'm gonna lose my family and my job b/c i feel i can't even function properly righht now...i feel i was detoxed WAY to fast and am now paying a price for it.
my body is all closed up..i feel that i'm literally paralyzed exhausted from having heart rate at 130+ and high blood pressure and more &*&? than i can list.
so i was wondring...does anyone feel that a week of detox is right for such a strong drug like xanax?
i honestly feel like saving my job and family by taking it again and then weening down with a doctors hel;p WHILE i get intense therapy which i started and it feels good, but i don't feel RIGHT in the head to be able to focus on ANYTHING but what i'm even tyoing...if that.
just wondering.
i'm sure the response to this will be delightful...but i just wanna do whats best in the longrun...and right now i'm incapable of feeling like i can even breathe...literally. its just ???$*
i'm on prozac and neurontin and it's no help..i know they tell me to wait on that help, but my wife is getting fed up with me and i casn't blame her.
thanks everyone. sorry for the long message.
March 26, 2007 - 11:26am
#2
been there
Dont stop what youve built. Benzo addiction is the worst of all. Toughest to treat trust me im in the business. DONT give up the week you got or youll have to do it again someday. Or you will be dead or in a gutter with no family or job. IT WILL GET EASIER. Use a support system. Dont blow what you got trust me its a lot nicer clean.......
Hang in there every day gets easier....
And treat your mental disorders those seem to be a major problem themselves.....
March 26, 2007 - 2:49pm
#3
benzo etc.
I'm no doctor but don't need to be, to see you've been screwed. Your brain has made way too many receptors, compensating for all the drugs. Xanax peaks fast, and runs away fast. Much like nicotine and cocaine, it wants a bump to reup way to often.
You should have been titrated to valium. No buzz, but a much longer half life than xanax. A week at 10 mg. 2 times a day, then 5 mg., then 2-3 mg. This should have been spread over a month or more.
And the opiates have not forgotton you. Colondine, (cattapress) is a blood pressure drug that many docs would prescribe, and would help you with the dopamine dump you can't mop up on your own yet. One of the anti the runs drugs is related to demerol, enough to help a day or two.(loperamide?) If your not and never have been a smoker, a box of the weakest patches, for ~a week sounds crazy, but look at you now. You can't climb 50 feet up a ladder and expect to get down using only 4 steps. Its a ???$* of a fall.
March 26, 2007 - 4:17pm
#4
Where did the cigarettes
Where did the cigarettes come into play?
And I don't think the brain has "made" too many receptors, the brain has been artificially (via pills) stimulating or suppressing the receptors that were already present. Once the drug is discontinued, it takes awhile for the receptors, both opiate and dopamine, to balance back out.
I'm not a Dr, and the majority of what I have learned is through common sense and reading various other sites. This site has a lot of information, so it's up to the visitors to pick out the good from the bad information.
Gtrplayer
March 26, 2007 - 4:30pm
#5
valium
I never implied more xanax, only valium. Cig's never came into play, only nicotine. I clearly stated if you ever smoked forget it. But more and more is being learned about nicotine everyday.
The idea our natural receptors "shut down" with drug exposure has been loosing altitude since we first found out we had receptors. Rather, our brains, trying to balance everything out, puts down a bar stool for everyone. Its when everyone leaves, and there's a "room" full of empty seats the trouble begins. You can't shut down production if you don't make something similar. You can mimic it.
March 28, 2007 - 1:23am
#6
Only good- no offense but
Only good- no offense but everything I have read that you wrote it VERY confusing. I think gtrplayer would agree.
I don't think a week of detox, or the substitute meds they provided were enough for you in your case, but you have to work with what you are given. One week of detox is better than none at all. Although it feels like the pains of withdrawal and all the other effects on your body right now will never subside, keep in mind that most of the time the first week is the worst. If you could get through the first week with all your other issues added on top, then it can only get better from there. Whenever you feel weak, like taking just one pill will help you get through and feel better, think of the disappointed look on your children's faces as they watch you take yet another step to regecting your family. To them its like a slap in the face, it says the high from that one pill is more important than a life with your family.
I don't mean to sound so extreme, but thats the idea you need to keep in your head to get through this rough time in your life. There are also many support groups out there, especially online, who can help you get through the mental withdraws while the doctors help you get through the physical ones. I don't know what happened last time you were on here, but just remember not to bite the hand that feeds you, or in your case, not to bite the head off of the person that helps you. :)
I hope everything works out well for you and your family!!
March 28, 2007 - 1:42am
#7
you said that you are
you said that you are thinking about just saving your job and family by taking it again and then weening down. First, taking it again WILL NOT save your job and family- it will do the exact opposite. The whole point is to get off them to save your family, job, and self. In the long run staying on pills, even just a little bit, will be worse for all of you. Second, if the doctors thought weening you as you suggest was the best option than they would have done that in the first place. Theres a reason why detox medicated you the way they did- because the professionals think that was what was best for your case.
A question- why are you on neurontin anyway? I believe that is a nerve pain medicine. Is that in relation to the panic attacks? Also, in therapy, have you tried to get to the root of how and why you began taking too many in the first place? It could be from the feeling you got on them, the feeling of being in control of something, or just the repetitive motion of putting something in your mouth (this is what smokers have a problem with when quitting). It may be related to your history of always refusing drugs or help and now taking it and trying to make up for lost time, if you know what i mean. Getting to the psychological root of what started this in the first place may help get over the feeling of needing it.
I'm sure you already are, but are you talking to your wife about everything going on- and being completely honest with her? make sure she understands what the problem is and what help or support will help best. I had similar problems and was afraid of what people would say or how they would treat me. I finally talked to my fiance and asked for his help but I made sure to explain what I thought would be the best way he could help and be supportive without leaving everything on him. Make sure you also show her how much you appreciate her putting up with you right now in this state, and how much her support right now means to you.
March 28, 2007 - 7:27am
#8
only good, i have to agree
only good, i have to agree that your post are hard to follow at best.
also, please do not try to give advice about how people should have titrated their medicines. you are not a doctor, and should not give medical advice.
just b/c something has worked for you or someone which you know doesnt mean that you are any more credible than any other addict who thinks they have the answer regarding withdrawal or the discontinuing of their medicines.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
March 28, 2007 - 8:40am
#9
Quote:Its when everyone
Quote:
Its when everyone leaves, and there's a "room" full of empty seats the trouble begins. You can't shut down production if you don't make something similar. You can mimic it.
only good, I'm not trying to be negative here, but this is the kind of stuff I have trouble following. That statement seems like a contradiction in and of itself. How can the "room" become "empty" unless the production has been shut down, or severely depressed?
I might be misinterpreting what you are trying to say. Are you saying that "you can't shut down......" in the tone of a matter of fact statement, or as a rhetorical statement? Please clarify.
Gtrplayer
March 29, 2007 - 11:14am
#10
seats
I'm saying overtime you develop ~10 times the normal receptors. You quit drug. With drug gone, natural receptors can only fill 10% of the seats. Your going to feel the empty 90 ones. I think feeling 5-10 at a time is plenty.
Lets say you know you must fall off the " ladder ". Okay, you want to fall 5 or 500 feet. To fast spells relapse guys. Look. Ask. Read.
My titrate. Your right. I was wrong. I was only trying to be realistic.
March 29, 2007 - 11:39am
#11
speaking of
speaking of "look.ask.read"....
where did you get the information that "you develop new receptors"? (can you provide a credible link to support this statement).
while your body might become acclimated the receptors that are there, are simply there. people do not grow new ones.
as far as the titration goes, while i do agree that someone should be gradually lowered safely, this is up to the doctors discretion. some doctors (so long as they feel it is safe) will not help out those who are blatantly abusing drugs. it is called negative re-enforcement.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
March 29, 2007 - 12:39pm
#12
only good, over time,
only good,
over time, your brain becomes accustomed to being stimulated by artificial means of certain chemicals. Once your brain becomes accustomed, it takes more and more of the drug to stimulate the receptor. Therefore, to say that you "grow" 10 percent more of certain receptors is false.
I also agree that in certain cases, a steady taper is needed. However; opiates are not a drug that poses an immediate risk of death if discontinued. The Xanax, sure, it should be tapered.
Let's use your "ladder" example to illustrate the idea of negative reinforcement. Which of these two are you most likely to never forget: Falling 5 feet and spraining an ankle, or falling 50 feet and breaking your back? If you fall hard enough, you'll most likely avoid climbing the ladder in the first place.
Gtrplayer
March 29, 2007 - 1:37pm
#13
Stay strong and take care of yourself.
So guys, have we lost site of the original posting in our quest to be right?
Withdrawl is horrible, so is using. Don't forget how sneaky the addict inside you can be. There are many EXCUSES to pick up your drug again. Just remember that unfortunately, these have gotten you to where you are today. There are many other forums on the net that may be more appropriate for you. Try some recovery based ones. There you'll find others who have been in both your position and your wife's.
Take care
March 29, 2007 - 1:52pm
#14
No, we answered everything
No, have not lost track of the original question. Matter of fact, we answered the original question a long time ago in a different post.
Notice that there are links to the other "help based" sites in the linked thread.
Gtrplayer
Forgive me if this seems a stupid question, but your rather lengthy story of recent events speaks (quite often) of the medical professionals treating you, specializing in this specific field...so, i guess my question to you is, "What can you possibly gain from a bunch of amateurs who try and i.d. pills and share their experiences?" You seem to be asking for help from rookies (not even) while being treated by the all-star team...? Doesn't this strike you as odd..?
there is a difference between seeking help, and seeking attention...you seem to be getting the correct help... so what is it you seek..?
-we have been there for you in the past and you did not have this "support system" set up then...sounds to me like you have a good system in place, but 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, days clean, while extremely important...is not clean when it comes to these drugs. They change the way your brain secretes chemicals at normal rates (serotonin, endorphins,etc) so you should take stock and see how you feel at 3-4 months clean MINIMUM!