October 21, 2007 - 7:02am
Im 43 yo and have had back probs for decades, mostly from car wrecks in my teens, 2 of them that i was in a coma in both and severaql broken bones, anyway.
I was on tylenols 3,s in the early 90,s from this and then went to the 4,s.
Then in the mid 90,s went to hydros.
Then in 1998 went over to oxycontin from a disc in my lower back-l4-s5 i think its called that had herniated, man talk about totally immobilzing ya and stops you from sleeping as no matter what posistion i got in i could not stop the pain as i was actually crying from the pain so i went to the hospital and they said i had a pulled muscle, i told them no way as i know what a pulled muscle feels like, well they sent me home 2hrs later, well 3 hrs later i couldnt move so i called the ambulance to come and get me as i could not lower myself down to get in a car at all, well they came and took me to the hospital, then the hospital just gave me a shot of demerol, it did nothing and they sent me homwe,, well a few hours later i called the ambulance again, they took me back, then the hospital took xrays and gave me another shot and again said it was just a pulled muscle. arrg!!!!
Well several hours later a friend took me back with his truck, a different doc at the hospital ordered a epidural for me, well they did that to me and sent me home, it didnt help at all, not one bit, so back to the hospital i go, well the same doc there ordered a mri, it was then that a back specialist seen the mri results and said i had a herniated disc and sent me to a back surgeon, he put me on 60 80mg oxies, well i took them for a few days while they schedulaed surgery, well i finally had the surgey and i went back to my regular doc and told him that the 80mg oxies were to strong so i said can he just put me on 10,s and he gave me 0xycontin 10 mg and all was well for some time but still had some minor pain from then on, but not long as about 6 months later i was at the grocery store and bent down to get a 5lb bag of sugar and as i stood back up, BAM, severe instant pain again, ahhh i said, not again, well i went back to the doc who did the surgery and he did another mri, he said sorry but that same disc has herniated again and will have to do another surgery, well i said i will just see how long i can go with staying on the 10mg oxies, well it has been a few years and i have been dealing w/it taking the oxies daily.
Well the past few weeks the pain is almost where it was when i had the surgey, im getting maybe 3 hrs of sleep a night, i went to another back doc just a week ago and he gave me 10/325 percs also, well since then i have had to pop 2 of them along w/my oxies every 3 hrs to get any relief at all.
Im just worried that i might od or something but i honestly dont feel at all like im close to taking to much.
I have an appointment for a pain clinic next friday and hope maybe they can help, so has anyone had any luck w/a pain clinic as faras them helping w/this type prob and how to deal w/it?
October 21, 2007 - 3:40pm
#2
sounds sort of like me,
sounds sort of like me, around the same age as well. Was on percocet till a few months ago, took that for 7 years...2 back ops during that time, herniated a few discs in april..dr switched me to kadian lately and has bumped it up last week...I have done every type of injection/procedure..short relief if any..saw surgeon on friday and he will not operate due to arachnoiditis..not sure what the question was, maybe you can switch meds? anyway hang in there you are not alone in pain.
Pain clinics can be of some help if you find a good dr.
I am not a Dr. I just play one on TV.
October 21, 2007 - 3:40pm
#3
I have herniated c3-c4 or
I have herniated c3-c4 or something like that, but it is my neck. And I absolutely refuse surgery! Horror stories come from surgeries, and I dont want to become part of one.
Experience only
October 21, 2007 - 3:46pm
#4
Thanks for the reply, sorry
Thanks for the reply, sorry u in same boat as me, i was just wondering if pain clinics really help and also was kinda worried about accidently o d ing as i said im havin to pop these things every two hours to even move around, i akso have 2mg diluidid and dunno if that will help at all as i just took the last of my oxies and oxycodones, now im really gonna be up the creek
October 22, 2007 - 10:25am
#5
As long as you do not have
As long as you do not have evidence of progressive neurologic damage from the pressure of the heniated disc on the spinal cord or spinal nerves, you may be able to manage a herniated disc without surgery. While any surgical proceedure is serious and involves risk, the outcomes for surgery for herniated disks is usually good. I warn patients that surgery will not necessarily relieve their back pain, but it will allow them to retain function, and usually does improve their pain level. It is reasonable to get an opinion from more than one surgeon about whether you would benefit from surgery.
I am surprised that the epidural you recieved did not help the pain at all. Sometimes there are little pockets in the epidural space where the mediction does not seem to spread and so pain relief in that little pocket is not good. Sometimes using a higher space or a greater volume can help with this problem.
By all means go to an interventional pain management specialist if surgery is not needed. Don't forgo physical therapy, hydrotherapy, tens unit, accupuncture, hypnosis, biofeedback and adjuvant medications (like lidoderm, cymbalta, elavil, neurontin, lyrica, motrin, naprosyn, etc.) if your doctor thinks they might help.
The herniated disc probably has nothing to do with the car accidents in your teens, and everything to do with you being in your 40's!
October 22, 2007 - 10:37am
#6
Thanks so much doc for your
Thanks so much doc for your reply to my post/i just got home from a failed mri due to me not being able to lay still long enuff as the pain keeps me from doing so, so i went right next door back to my doc and his nurse set me up w/a diff mri company that does iv sedation mri,s in which i will go to tomm morn, i will post back the outcome.
October 22, 2007 - 11:22am
#7
changing med's
Though I never have been on Morphine, except when in the hospital, my doctor has offered to change my ER oxycodone and IR oxycodone's (for breakthru) to both of the same but with Morphine. My doctor's policies are a strict 6mg-5mg oxy to morphine. I am not sure if my chronic pain can be affected better with the morphine. I don't think this can be a merry-go-round. I think I will have to stay with it for a while(Morphine) if I decide to change med's. Tough descion to make.
October 22, 2007 - 11:24am
#8
Had it wrong. It is 6mg to
Had it wrong. It is 6mg to 5mg morphine to oxycodone.
October 22, 2007 - 2:53pm
#9
I also have a herniated
I also have a herniated C3-C4 disc which is impinging my spinal cord but no one will do anything to correct it. Most of the doctors I have seen think that my neck is not the cause of my problems. I've even been told that a herniated disc is normal and should not be causing pain.
The pain radiates from my neck down into my trapezius and deltoid muscles. My right arm goes numb. I am also dealing with facial numbness including my upper teeth and nose. It becomes worse when I flex and/or extend my head. The headaches from the back of my neck are insane, I'm also dizzy, have nausea, and the really weird thing is that if I push on my neck or otherwise put pressure on my cervical spine my symptoms are exacerbated ! A lot of times my breathing becomes labored as a result.
I currently take Oxycontin 60 BID with Oxycodone 15mg 3 X day. They help a lot but when they wear off OH GOD !! is the pain bad.
I have had the bad disc for some time now but most of these symptoms are new. As I have said my doctors including my pain doctor are trying to tell me my neck is not the cause of all this. Personally I do not see how. When you take into consideration that all my scans show a problem and combine that with these new symptoms you would think it wouldn't take a medical degree to figure out. To be honest however most doctors are completely clueless when it comes to common sense.
Is there a physician out there who is worthy of his or her medical degree?
There is a saying in health care that if you hear hoof beats it is more than likely a horse but that is not always the case as those hoof beats could be something else, a zebra for example. Unfortunately, most doctors are either too incompetent or too short sighted and as a result do not notice this important fact.
October 22, 2007 - 2:54pm
#10
I know some of what you are
I know some of what you are going through, everyone is different and has different symptoms.
I dont want surgery, they cant talk me into it. Come out of surgery with my neck being sideways, is not something I want to deal with.
Quote:
Is there a physician out there who is worthy of his or her medical degree?
100% agreement with that comment.
Experience only
October 22, 2007 - 3:19pm
#11
I would stay with the Oxy
I would stay with the Oxy then, thats a bad ratio and you def. won't get the same relief. To the OP, if you haven't OD'd yet, you probably aren't going to unless you significantly increase your dosage. But still be careful, but if you were on 80's and went to 10's I wouldn't worry too much.
Check with a licensed MD before you take any suggestions!
October 22, 2007 - 4:15pm
#12
Thanks for the info Dr.
Thanks for the info Dr. Lois. I know me and you havent exactly got along to good. But I really havent nothng against you.
Hope you feel the same, or I will have to re-write my message... LOL!
But thanks!
Experience only
October 22, 2007 - 5:07pm
#13
Labored breathing, dizziness
Labored breathing, dizziness - Vagus nerve?
Upper teeth and nose sensation - Trigeminal nerve?
None of these should be attributable to C3-C4 herniation, because the cranial nerves do not exit through the cervical spine.
October 22, 2007 - 5:37pm
#14
Quahog, did you have the
Quahog, did you have the symptoms immediately after the herniation? Or was it later?
Just wanted to compare my results.
Experience only
March 3, 2009 - 1:49am
#15
This is the typical response
This is the typical response I get from other health care workers instead of searching for the problem. Yes it is true that the disc may not be the cause of all my issues but it could be cause of some of them. According to one neurosurgeon I spoke with via email it could be due to pressure on the cord itself. He even told me of one person who's cord was impinged (Myelopathy) and that when she moved he arm her legs went numb. A lot of this is due to cross talk from the nerves being irritated.
I also know of another person who had a C3-C4 herniation and had similar problems to mine. Her NS told her that because her spine cord was impinged it was causing cross talk throughout her nerves. She told me her NS said it is not abnormal for things to radiate upwards in a case such as this.
At this point I do not know if my C3-C4 is the cause of this but as I have said my neck does seem to be involved. There might be other issues going on such as facet hypertrophy at C5-C6 and Osteophytes. The pain from my neck is SEVERE !!!!. and when I move my head things get worse. One doctor I saw suggested I ask about a myelogram but when I asked my pain doctor about it he refused. I know it is invasive but with the symptoms I am having and the lack of the MRI to show something more concrete It absolutely needs to be performed. If not that a CT or MRI with contrast. or an open upright MRI. There is something going on there and I am tired of being ignored. You can not diagnose based on an MRI alone especially when symptoms tell a different story.
I would bet everything I own including my life that my neck and cervical spine are the cause of all this and I am not a gambling man. and the next person who tells me that my C3-C4 disc should not be causing me so much pain because it is normal will wish they hadn't. 
What I am dealing with is not normal nor is it caused by opioid hyperalgesia. I do not believe that exists. The studies behind this are faulty. Besides only a small subgroup of elderly white females was found to have these symptoms. It is not good science.
KnightM: I have probably had the disc herniation for close to 4 years now. I was in a nasty head on traffic collision. I had some pain initially then went through PT, it eased up some but not completely. However it seems like with in the past year it has flared up again and is getting worse. I never had the numbness in the past like it is now.
October 23, 2007 - 7:37am
#16
well im off to do the iv
well im off to do the iv seadation mri, will report outcome
October 23, 2007 - 12:48pm
#17
Well just returned home from
Well just returned home from the ic sedation mri, well it went ok, they say it still took 4 people to help holdme still even with the iv pmping morphie and vestra i thibnk its called int me to keep me still for the mri.
Anyway i called the doc who set eup w/this to see whats next the urse said he is not there today,arg i said ok im outa mewds so what am i suppose to do,,well she said he went on vacation and wont be back for two weeks WTF!!!!!
Now what am i suppose to do, she just said sorry.
I cant beieve this and im sorry for my langauge but this is like a nightmare.
October 24, 2007 - 2:46pm
#18
Wow...
Wow, tctech3. I'm so sorry to hear that your doctor left you hanging high and dry like that. The only advice I can think to give you is if you experience withdraw symptoms (which it sure sounds like you will) or the pain is unbearable, I would visit the emergency room. As long as your story checks out, they will most likely help you. It may just be a short term plan, but it beats suffering.
Longer term--I would definitely be on the hunt for a new doctor that cares enough about his patients not to leave them hanging like that.
Again, I feel for you being in that situation. I hope you get things worked out.
Best wishes--God bless...
October 24, 2007 - 4:42pm
#19
Your doctor should have
Your doctor should have someone covering for him, or have a number where his office can reach him for a problem like this. I would try calling to office again and talk to someone else (who may know what is going on). If your doctor really left without emergency coverage, he can be sanctioned by the state board of medicine, and no one wants that, so I can't imagine your doctor left without making any arrangements for coverage.
October 24, 2007 - 8:27pm
#20
back pain
First, I am sorry for your pain. Second, unfortunately I can personally sympathize...except for the coma! Wow!
I was bucked off a horse over a cliff in Hawaii. Took me a few months to walk again, b ut ever since I have had excuciating back pains at times with a steady pain never-ending. I have a severely degenerated disc compared to an 80-year old and older at L5-S1. A ruptured disc at L4 and a bulging disc at L3. I am only 45! 2 of my aunts had back surgery and have much like you not found much relief, so I am continuing to put it off. So I will pass along a few things that I have found a few months of relief with adding that they may not work for you. I have had 4 facet injections and a couple epidurals. Relief has ranged from 2 weeks to 6 months. I know others have had more relief time from these procedures but I won't fool you....with our damage we welcome short "rescue" of any time length.
My doctor did just recommend a research study that I qualified for RN624. The study is to help determine if the investigational drug, RN624, is effective in the mangement of moderate to severe chronic back pain. This has already been studied in people with moderate to severe pain from osteoarthritis of the knee and in people with post-operative pain following a bunionectomy. I had the injection today. It is given intravaneously in the arm. You have a 40% chance of getting the RN624 over the placebo. So far so good, my pain has dimished from a 8 on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the most painful) almost every day, good days is a 7 down to tonight I would give it about a 5. They gave me relief medicine today, so I can't really say, but I can let you know in the morning if you're interested in knowing. Sleeping is always the tell-tale sign. I'm sure you can relate to the struggle of just trying to find a comfortable position to sleep. I will know in the morning if I recieved the placebo! There won't be any doubt! :)
Just thought I would let you know. You can keep an eye out for the future of RN624 or look for a study in your area if you might be interested in that. The study is sponsored by Phizer.
A few facts on RN624. It is a monoclonal antibody directed against the human nerve growth factor referred to as "NGF". Antibodies are produced by the body naturally. They are proteins that helps protect the body. Studies have shown that antibodies help block the NGF which in return helps relieve the pain. You may want to explore your options with your doctor. I didn't really take a look at any other antibody options that might be available and being prescribed and administered today. I figure being 45 maybe if I help the research along that maybe by the time I really am 80 there will have discovered the key to total relief. Okay....I know might be asking too much for total relief....but one can only hope! :) I understand your concern on feeling that you have to rely on any of they "oxy's". Been there...done that...and it isn't any fun!
Best to you!
October 24, 2007 - 8:30pm
#21
back pain
Also.....I have tried back clinics. I have found that they helped in the earlier stages. So good luck there.
October 27, 2007 - 4:39pm
#22
It bothers me as to why
It bothers me as to why everyone thinks that when you have these problems they are always going to follow a predetermined norm. I am acutely aware of human anatomy & physiology but just because symptoms are atypical doesn't mean that it isn't caused by a cervical abnormality. Most health care practitioners are taught in school that a certain condition will only react a certain way and that's it but that is not always the case and to think it is, is incredibly foolish to say the least.
Most physicians lack the common sense to realize this.
A C3-C4 herniation or any Cervical disc issue can in some situations cause a whole slew symptoms from facial nerve complaints to lower extremity infarctions in addition to the standard ailments.
October 25, 2007 - 1:44am
#23
Wow thanks for all the info
Wow thanks for all the info to everyone.
anyway i went to my regular home doc to show him the mro report, he said he already had it as it was faxed to him lol and he didnt even know of my new flair up,anyway i get 6 10mg oxies from him a month, werll on the 9th this month he refilled them and due to this flar up i went thru them in less than 2 weeks, well i told him i need a refill lol he didnt even question it even though i was more than 2 weeks early and even surprised me more was my insurance paid it. i guess they all seen on their pc,s what i am going thru.
anyway i have a appt w/a pain clinic friday/tomorrow and see what they say and i have the whole mri i just had done all on a cd, heck i looked at it on my pc and i can see the prob myself plain as day, i will take this w/me to the pain clinic.
here is the one im going to and they strive on non-surgical pain management
http://www.seanesthesiology.com/handler.cfm?categoryID=35&ParentID=23
October 25, 2007 - 1:45am
#24
i meant i get 60 10mg oxies
i meant i get 60 10mg oxies a month lol
October 25, 2007 - 11:16am
#25
back pain
I will be thinking of you Friday. I hope you can find some relief!
October 26, 2007 - 10:42pm
#26
Thank u,, anyway i went to
Thank u,, anyway i went to the pain clinic andall went weell, i gave them all my recent doctor reports and my recent mri,s that were on a cd.
I have been on #60 10mg oxycontins x2day for many many years and he upped me to #90 20mg oxies 1 every eight hours.
He also prescribed another drug which is used for seizures which he tells me its also used for the nerves being affected.
So next tuesday he is going to start a nerve block program on me which involves needles,eeeks,,, oh welll better than all this pain.
I also had to do a pee drug test which i had np with and they pull them on you randomly.
They also will tell you to bring in your bottle of pills so they can count them and do this randomly also to make sure u r not doin to many.
So overall it was a great start.
October 30, 2007 - 1:46pm
#27
Well got back from the pain
Well got back from the pain clinic a few hrs ago where they did a sedated nerve block on me and honestly the pain is just about as bad as before i went in, very discourageing
October 31, 2007 - 1:56pm
#28
It might be more accurate to
It might be more accurate to say that a diagnosis is easy when symptoms correlate with physical findings and imaging, and respond to treatment as expected. With back and neck problems there is poor correlation between findings on tests like MRI's, symptoms and response to treatment, so diagnosis and treatment can be really frustrating and difficult. This is a problem not only with back and neck pain but also a problem with pelvic pain in women and upper abdominal pain treated with removal of the gallbladder.
I am not trying to dismiss the pain Quahog is dealing with, but I do understand the reluctance of his doctors to operate without a better correlation between his symptoms and his pathology.
Just as an aside and not directed at your post Terrapin-station, it is interesting how the medical profession, in my opinion, seems so aware of the limits of our knowledge, but the public frequently refers to how we think of ourselves as gods, and how surgeons are simultaneously accsed of being knife happy, and being too cautious to offer a surgical option.
November 15, 2007 - 2:09am
#29
Well a few weeks later and
Well a few weeks later and no better what soever,
November 15, 2007 - 10:30am
#30
Tvtech, I also have been
Tvtech, I also have been told I "need" an operation on my back. My neck has problems also for a car wreck over 30 yrs ago. I cannot tell you the amount of people I have talked to wishing they had never gotten that 1st back/neck surgery. I refuse to do a surgury because of the people I know who started with 1 then ending up with 2 or 3 They told me to think very hard about the neck injury and I have made up my mind to not take the knive to either the back or neck surgury OK best of luck with you.
November 15, 2007 - 11:38am
#31
Taking huge amounts of oxycontin
Hello, Just so you have something to compare it with I used to have to take 80mg tabs of Oxycontin 6 times a day then eventually was put on 160mg tabs 4 times a day. It was over a couple year period by the time my dosage got that high but if you do the math the amount you are taking is many many times LESS than I was on. I am 50 now but was around 43 then. Since my pain condition was determined to be permanent I am now using a pain pump that was put in my body and sends meds to my spine. I no longer have to take oral meds. Kinda miss them though. But what my docs said back then was that they would rather have me on the oxy then the hydrocodone because of the acetaminophen which is worse for your liver than the Opioid. I think I originally was on Hydrocodone and then went to 40mg tabs of oxy 3 times a day then from there I just got so immune to it they had to keep upping it. It sure was awful when I eventually had to come off the meds. Something I can't even thing about. Hope that was of some help. You see everyone's body is so different. What my body was able to handle another would probably overdose.
Calamity Jane
November 29, 2007 - 7:39am
#32
Thanks jane, wow that amount
Thanks jane, wow that amount is way way up there and i didnt even know a doc would sub such a high amount-wow- is all i can say.
Anyway after a few nerve blocks from the pain clinic i am starting to get relief, i did however have a weird side effect from lyrica that the doc at the pain clinic put me on also but that is in another thread i started here, and i must say thank you to all for your input and experiences to me on this!!
Here is the thread about what happened to me on the lyrica the doc at the pain clinic put me on http://www.pharmer.org/node/9775
December 8, 2007 - 2:04am
#33
Neck pain
I am in the same boat as you are so I know how bad it hurts.Only difference is that my left arm goes numb.I am also on Oxycontin and OxycodoneIR and yep when they wear off it is pure torture.I am having to fight with workers comp because I did it at work when lifting a patient.I have had a few of their Drs tell me it doesn't hurt lol.I wish they could spend a night or two in our place.Thank goodness I have a great pain management Dr that understands.
March 2, 2009 - 12:34pm
#34
oxycontin
i have been on 160mg oxycontin twice a day with up to 6 30mg of roxicodone for breakthrough pain for about 6 years and i still hurt all the time. i have severe spinal stenosis 4 herniated disks and the list goes on. i an supposed to have surgery soon but i am scared. you said you were worried ebout taking to much oxy, the best thing to go by is how well you function on your dosage. If you are a walking zombie then you are taking too much if not then ask your docter to increase your dose till you get relief. most back pain sufferers will hurt no matter what they take. medicine basically helps you not care. good luck with your quest to find a good dose for you,
March 2, 2009 - 8:42pm
#35
Oxycontin dose
I was on Oxycontin too, several years ago and within a years time I reached 160 mg TID. I was also using 30 mg Roxicodone for my BT meds about four to six times a day. For a brief period of time (maybe a month or six weeks) my doctor did raise my Oxy dose to 160 mg QID, but then switched me to the Duragesic patch with the Roxicodone for BT.
It's amazing how fast your tolerance to these meds can go up and you are able (at least I could) work everyday and no one knew anything about my mediccal situation and the fact I was on all those pain meds. I did finally reach a point where I could no longer work, due to the pain, and for the past five years have been on SSD. I now am on 120 mg of Methadone per day.
wow, no replies