December 9, 2006 - 2:31pm
Howdy all. Yesterday got a prescription for fiorcet (non-narcotic) this has butalbital, acetaminophen and caffeine. It is a generic, and it is round, blue, imprinted west-ward 787. From the reading I've done on this (I'm a bit compulsive) the three ingredients are painmed. barbituate and stimulant. OK, good enough. I am allowed to take 1 every 6 hours, and it is stronger than that OTC excedrin plus that has aspirin/tylenol + caffeine, BUT I cannot find out how much caffein and butalbital is in the pill.
It doesn't say on the bottle or the patient info. form. And with all the talk of acetaminophen poisoning you'd think AT LEAST they'd say how much tylenol would be in the pill! Plus, how smart is it to put a barbituate with caffeine?
The more I read of this medicine, the less I know and the stranger it is. THere is also a stronger narcotic version of this that ALSO has the equivalent of 30 g of codeine in it. Seems like that pushes ones body in a lot of different directions! I suppose I am overthinking this, but this part of it all shouldn't be giving me the headache, eh?
December 9, 2006 - 3:25pm
#2
Thanks, what are the mg comparitive to?
Thanks for replying so quickly. And I'll use that reference in the future, so double thanks. Now, if I may follow up...
I get that the 325 mg of the acet. is like one reg. strength tyl., so I am relieved, but cannot figure out the others. For instance, could I have a cola with this medicine? What is the barbituate equiv. too or do the two outweigh each other?
Aren't you glad I didn't get an Rx for Fiorcet with codeine? = )
December 9, 2006 - 3:49pm
#3
Carlos, my friend, I'll be
Carlos, my friend, I'll be honest with you. I have no idea what barbiturates are used for, other than to sedate I believe. As for the caffeine amount, I guess that would be considered half a cup of coffee? It says on the No-Doz labels that No-Doz contains 200mgs of caffeine, or about 2 cups of coffee. So, if 200mgs is 2 cups of coffee, then 100mg would be 1 cup, and 50mg would be half a cup. It's a weird logic, but I guess that's the best comparitive explanation I can give you. So, I guess, very, very loosely, you could compare it to taking a regular strength tylenol with a half cup of coffee. Just my opinion, and it's not scientific at all.
gtrplayer
December 9, 2006 - 3:58pm
#4
Foiricet...
I have been prescribed Fioricet in the past for migraine headaches, and they seemed to work for me. Were you asking about drinking a soda with these because of the caffeine? I would think it would only cause a problem if you were sensitive to caffeine and got completely wired from a Mt. Dew or coffee. My suggestion would be to try the Fioricet with water, and if the caffeine does not effect you badly, then yes, you could drink a soda with it. I think gtrplayer did a good job in putting in perspective the ingredients of this medicine. I'm not a doctor, yada yada, but I do have experience with this medicine. Out of curiosity, and you may have already told us, but what were you prescribed Fioricet for?
December 9, 2006 - 4:16pm
#5
fiorcet musings continued...
for headaches. And since I am the one who just (3 weeks ago) had out patient surgery and have been taking Rx pain medicine, the doc. didn't want to add more chemicals to my system. I take 1/2 vicodin every 12 hours now.
I was warned not to take the fior. at the same time as the strong stuff, but so far haven't taken the fiorcet yet. I was going to, then thought, why not just take regular tylenol with soda? I think if there is a headache that is too strong and needs medicine, I'll just take it. Darn the internet and all this free time I've had lately!
December 19, 2006 - 2:28am
#6
Fiorcet is normaly Rxed for migraine suferers
The drug Fiorcet is normally Rxed for those who cant find relief from usual migraine medication. The caffeine in the drug is used to constrict the blood vessels in the brain which will reduce blood flow, which will reduce the pain experienced throughout a migraine. And the other meds are self explanatory, one relieves pain and one is a really really low dose of a barbiturate (which is used for sedation and other reasons)Hope some of this info helps. PEACE
________________________________________________________________________________
Not a DR once a X Benzo and Narcotic Addict, but am a Pharm Tech at a local Walgreen's Pharmacy. "22 months sober clean and serene"
December 19, 2006 - 7:38am
#7
Makes sense
thanks for the additional comments.
I've only used the medicine a few times...seems to me that who(m?)ever dreamed this combination up is very smart. The pills work (wish they were a capsule and could work faster, though), and the caffeine counteracts the low dosage barbituate so that one is never wired or sleepily dopey.
December 20, 2006 - 3:24pm
#8
Fiorinal
I have never taken fioricet but do have experience with fiorinal and fiorinal w/ codeine. The difference between fioricet and fiorinal is that fioricet contains 325 mg acetaminophen and fiorinal substitutes the apap with aspirin. It also comes in a capsule vs. a tablet and has 40mgs caffeine as opposed to 50mg w/ the fioricet. In my opinion, the fiorinal works better for migraines since it contains aspirin, an anti-inflamitory which reduces swelling of the blood vessels in migraineurs. I have never really felt "wired" by the caffeine in the drug and when I had the version w/ codeine, appropriately called fiorinal #3, I almost felt overly sedated as I was rx'd to take 2 every 4-6 hrs. Carlos, if you feel that a capsule would work better, fiorinal comes only as a capsule so you might consider having your Dr. switch you to fiorinal and If you want, take a 325mg tylenol w/ it for additional relief. IMO, Fiorinal #3 w/ a reg strength 325mg tylenol is the best migraines pain releiver aside from Percodan which is much stronger. Just my thoughts and opinions but hopefully they are helpful and beneficial to you. You also might consider taking the fioricet with half a vicodin for additional relief as its not too much apap and shouldnt be overly sedating but if the fioricet is working fine on its own, there is no reason to augment with a narcotic. Sorry6 to write a book, this subject just piqued my curiosity and I thought I'd share my experience with theses meds. Best of luck my friend
PDX
December 21, 2006 - 3:29pm
#9
More details!
I enjoy your "book", any info on my medication or potential med. is of interest to me. Any idea why they differ the amount of caffeine depending on whether or not there is aspirin in the mix?
Also, it does logically make sense that an anti-inflammatory would do better than an acet. painkiller. I'm going to check and see if they make this with ibuprofen. That would be great...if not, I think when it is refill time, I'll talk to the physican about the fiorinal. Thanks. Any more details or comments are welcome.
December 21, 2006 - 4:10pm
#10
Actually, narcotics are
Actually, narcotics are being looked at negatively right now due to their incidence of causing rebound headaches. Percodan, Lortab, Vicoprofen, all of which were once prescribed for migraines, are being frowned upon in light of the recent findings.
WebMd has an article concerning rebound headaches at this link
To sum up a report from USNews.com,
"many patients who take narcotic pain relievers for chronic headaches may need to be admitted to the hospital for detoxification from the narcotic. The headaches will get worse during the detox, and should be done under a doctor's supervision. Once the detox is complete, preventative migraine medications can be started" USNews.com
This is just from things I have read about in various media outlets.. When I was having daily headaches, I was given a whole lot of Imitrex samples, as well as an Imitrex injection kit, which I never used because I am afraid of needles. The doc also decided to put me on a blood pressure medication. Don't know how much this helps, but for what it's worth, here it is.
gtrplayer
December 21, 2006 - 5:53pm
#11
migraines continued
Luckily, my chronic migraines have ceased except for the rare occasion. I used to be prescribed Percodan, Fiorinal w/ and without codeine, nadolol and propanolol for prevention as well as an assortment of the "triptans" aka imitrex, relpax, amerge, maxalt, etc. from my neurologist and pcp. Even demerol in a few cases. It is true that narcotics can cause rebound headaches but I would only use them after trying various NSAID/caffeine combos, a triptan drug, and even fiorinal before resorting to the percodan, vicoprofen, or in the rarest of circumstances, demerol which seem to be the best naroctic combos to help with migraines. Toradol has also been used but I find it ineffective compared with other NSAID's. Also, an opiate agonist/antagonist known generically as butorphanol or the brand Stadol can be very good as a narcotic to releive migraines and other headaches. Since it is a mixed agonist/antagonist, it is much less likely to cause rebound headaches than other narcs and is also available as a nasal spray which gives much quicker relief than pills. Nalbuphine or Nubain, another mixed agonist/antagonist has also been helpful in my exprerience but it is very sedating and makes you very irritable unless you just go to sleep IMO. Also rx'd for migraines that I've heard is helpful is Indomethacin or Indocin which is a strong NSAID, however it caused me so much gastrointestinal distress that I refuse to use it again (got rid of the headache though.) As far as nausea associated w/ headaches, I've found that promethazine or Phenergan is helpful, yet sedating, and metoclopramide or reglan is helpful w/out the sedating side effects. Tigan (im unsure of the generic name) is also helpful yet less well known and therefore less likely to be rx'd. All in all, if I could reccomend the best headache cures I have come across, they would be: Fiorinal or Amerge (a triptan w/ a longer half life than the others) to start, than the Stadol nasal spray if you need a narcotic (it is much less likely to cause a rebound), and Percodan as a last resort as that always seems to work the best for me, or demerol mixed w/ ibuprofen or aspirin if your dr. is willing to rx it. Sorry to ramble but I thought all my experience might save others on the forum some trial and error when dealing with headache meds. If your dr. is uncomfortable rx'ing oxycodone/asa (Percodan) or demerol (which many are) vicoprofen works nearly as well but I'd usually have to take 2 pills as opposed to 1 percodan or 1/2-1 demerol 100mg.
Carlos...by the way, after doing a little research, fioricet contains 50mg butalbital, 325mg apap, and 40mg caffeine, and with Fioricet #3, 30mg of codeine are also present. With Fiorinal, there is also 50mg butalbital, 325mg aspirin, and 40mg caffeine and also w/ fiorinal #3 there is 30mg codeine as well. So the poster who noted that there is 50mg caffeine in fioricet was mistaken, there is only 40mg caffeine. Also, unfortunately, the do not manufacture a butalbital/caffeine/ibuprofen combonation as you were inquiring about. Just the butalbital/caff/aspirin combo known as fiorinal. The only combo ibuprofen products I can think of are all combined with narcs. There is vicoprofen which is 200mg ibuprofen and 7.5 mg hydrocodone. Also made is repraxin which is 200mg ibuprofen w/ 5mg hydrocodone. They also make combunox which is 400mg ibuprofen w/ 5mg oxycodone. You might be better off sticking to the fioricet and adding 1-2 200mg ibuprofen tablets with it. That way you are increasing your analgesic effect w/out adding sedating medicines. Just some thoughts and I hope they are helpful. I am not a health professional in any way and am just relating my opinions and experiences. Hope it is of some help and once again, I apologize about the length of my post. Best of luck to all headache sufferers and may you find relief as I have done.
Happymerry Christmashannukahquansah
PDX
January 16, 2009 - 4:05am
#12
Fioricet, Fiorinal (Generic name butalbital): Rebound Headaches
Reply to gtrpalyer, Msg #10:
"Actually, narcotics are being looked at negatively right now due to their incidence of causing rebound headaches. ..."
Boy, do they ever! Especially butalbital. If you plan to take butalbital, you better be prepared to take it the rest of your life. If you think a regular migraine is bad, and you take these meds to cure it, you may discover that a butalbital rebound headache wins the pain trophy hands down. A doctor gave me some off-script as a favor 36 years ago. They worked their magic, and then I spent the rest of my life finding ways to keep getting this med in copious quantities. I think you get the picture. I'm pretty sure I'll die if my sources dry up. At the very least, I will need medical assistance during the rebound and afterwards. Even so, a little voice in my brain pleads "please don't take them away from me."
January 18, 2009 - 2:11pm
#13
RE: Please don't take them away from me...MED TYPIST
20 some odd years ago I was in a car accident. An 18 wheeler hit my car and my skull. I suffered excruciating headaches. My Dr. put me on Fiorinal. I was concerned with addiction issues. He told me not to be concerned I would be on the stuff for the rest of my life anyway. WELL...guess what.....He snatched that drug away from me so fast it made my head spin...not to mention hurt a whole lot worse than it had before.
It seems I dreamed up the whole "Will be on it the rest of your life" scene. It was tough. I can't understand doctors and their reasoning sometimes. I changed doctors but to no avail....seems your medical history follows you whereever you go. Now I'm treated more like a Rx junkie than a patient. BUT hey the doctors know what they're doin' right? DUH!
Anyway, best of luck on this wicked journey. I wish you the very best in your search for pain control and just wanted you to know you're not the 1st nor the last this will happen to. It is only by sharing our experiences that we will learn how to better deal with all the twists and turns we come upon in the medical industry. By sharing we can become somewhat empowered by knowing we are not alone in our struggles to overcome our adversaries; whether they be the pains that plague us or the doctors who mislead us.
DISCLAIMER : I am NOT a member of any medical profession nor do I contend that all physicians and healthcare professionals are included in this commentary...... just the quacks who make our life worse than it has to be.....YOU know who you are !
L.
January 18, 2009 - 2:18pm
#14
Sober, Clean, Serene
Congratulations on you sobriety. I'm detoxing off my anti-depressants and Aderall. So far so good. Folks like yourself are an inspiration to keep fighting the good fight. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
L. 
January 18, 2009 - 8:38pm
#15
You're a Prince! Detoxing 2009
"...I wish you the very best in your search for pain control and just wanted you to know you're not the 1st nor the last this will happen to. ..."
Those are the kindest, most understanding words I have ever heard concerning this subject. Someone should find a way to put your essence into a pill for anyone in pain. Their suffering would be eased right away. Thank you so very much.
Butalbital 50mg
Acetaminohen 325mg
Caffeine 50mg
Info courtesy of Rxlist.com
Image courtesy of shampoogirl
gtrplayer