July 30, 2006 - 3:00am
#2
As far as I understand
As far as I understand it, Hydrocodone and Oxycodone are both semi-synthetic opiod agonists. Oxycodone is derived from Thebain, NOT Morphine. Hydrocodone can be derived from both thebain or codeine. They are both narcotic analgesics and controlled substances.
Derivatives of Morphine include Hydromorphone and Oxymorphone.
Tramadol is a synthetic atypical opiod. It is not considered narcotic at this time, but there is always an ongoing debate whether it is or is not and whether it should be or not (on this site, and in the medical profession/community). It is not a controlled substance. Tramadol was originally said to have a low risk of dependency, however the prescribing info for Ultram/Tramadol carries the warning that it may be habit forming.
From www.wikipedia.com
Opiate:
"The term is often incorrectly used to refer to all drugs with opium- or morphine-like pharmacological action, which are more properly classified under the broader term opiod.
The main opiates drived from opium are morphine, codeine and thebaine"
Also from www.wikipedia.com
Opioid:
"Although the term opiate is often used as a synonym for opioid, it is more properly limited to the natural opium alkaloids and the semi-synthetics derived from them"
July 30, 2006 - 4:16am
#3
Hmmm....
"Oxycodone is derived from Thebain, NOT Morphine."
Opioids can be classified as the following:
Partially synthetic derivatives of morphine - Heroin, oxycodone, oxymorphone,
Naturally occurring opium derivatives - Morphine
Synthetic compounds - Fentanyl, alfentanil, levorphanol, meperidine, methadone, codeine, propoxyphene
http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1673.htm
My comments are my opinions based on the questions posted on this message board and should be taken purely as is and not as medical gospal. Please consult medical concerns with medical proffesionals. Thank You!
July 30, 2006 - 5:46am
#4
I see links out there saying
I see links out there saying it comes from morphine, but then I find contradictory information. I did in depth research and used some other very credible sources that I can't link to because they are subscription and I still am leaning towards thebain.
Oh well, im not here to argue, just wanted to post the specific links from which I based my previous post.
"Oxycodone is a very powerful and addictive opioid analgesic medication synthesized from thebain."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxycodone
Here is the monograph from GSM (Gold Standard), a source we can all agree is very credible:
"Oxycodone is an oral semisynthetic opiate agonist derived from the opioid alkaloid, thebaine, and is similar to other phenanthrene derivatives, such as hydrocodone and morphine."
July 30, 2006 - 4:53pm
#5
Partially synthetic
I'm definitely not saying that you are wrong I'm just making a point that we could both be correct in certain aspects, but i researched and found that oxycodone is derived semi synthetically from morphine, but in all reality morphine and oxycodone etc... are all one in the same meaning that they are all closely related and could not be without the other.
You are right incognito in your answer that oxycodone is derived straight from thebaine, but oxycodone can be derived semi synthecially from morphine. In all instances I thank you for raising this debate and would welcome more info and corrections on this subject.
My comments are my opinions based on the questions posted on this message board and should be taken purely as is and not as medical gospal. Please consult medical concerns with medical proffesionals. Thank You!
August 3, 2006 - 11:55pm
#6
Tramadol
Hi 717,
Not sure what you want to know here exactly but here are some experiential views of Tramadol.
- Taken in larger than prescribed doses, it lowers your seizure threshold. Keeping that in mind, I have stupidly far exceeded those doses and been lucky.
- Their is nothing like an opiate buzz from taking them in normal or higher quantities. Absolutely nothing.
- Their time to onset in action is longer than opiates like codeine, hydrocodone, morphine, dilaudid, taking about 60-90 minutes.
- I would say their effectiveness in relieving pain is no more than 800 mg Ibuprofen.
- The pain-killing effects or side effects last much longer than opiates. Perhaps 8-10 hours.
- With exceeded doses, I have noticed urethral sphincter muscle effects and dribbling, clouding of hearing, nausea and vomiting.
- There has been discussion on the alt.drugs.hard board that they may help relieve some opiate withdrawal effects and I have found them slightly helpful against hot/cold sweating, anxiety symptoms of w.d.
- I don't know about being habit-forming (can't imagine ANYONE wanting to abuse them on a regular basis), but a tolerance to dosage is definite.
I hope this is some helpful.
Take Care, Stay Safe, God Bless,
Karen M.
November 19, 2006 - 11:13am
#7
Tramadol
Tramadol is very addicting. In recent years the DEA has reported increasing trends of Tramadol abuse particularly in people that have a past history of substance abuse. I personally take Tramadol and became addicted to them myself. In my opion as far as the difference in Tramadol and Hydrocodone is this: When taken in larger doses than prescribed, Tramadol can create a euphoric state that is equal to and often exceeding that of Hydrocodone and other narcotics. This effect lasts about 8 house as opposed to say hydrocodone that for me, lasts only about one hour. I personally prefer Tramadol over any other narcotic because of the long lasting effects when taking 250mg or more. Also once Tramadol is in your system on a regular basis and exceeding the normal prescribing dosage, the euphoric effects tend to be almost equal to that of Oxycontin. This is just my personal experience with Tramadol however, some people have reported not "feeling" anything at all from taking Tramadol.
February 2, 2007 - 12:04pm
#8
I have just found out that
I have just found out that my husband is abusing tramadol He got it filled like 5 times in DEC. I caught him he lied and lied and finally told me the truth after he knew that I alreadyknew... BUt he says that it does nothing at all just makes his oxycodo last longer.. I think that he is full of it and I also think that he is abusing his oxycodo.. I don't knwo what to do about this.. We have 3 kids and I can't believe that I am in this.. But he is abusing I am pretty sure.. What to do?
February 2, 2007 - 12:37pm
#9
barbie, I'm sorry you
barbie,
I'm sorry you are in this position. There are numerous threads on this site that deal with tramadol, and addiction. Possibly, too many threads that relate to tramadol. As I'm sure you already know, tramadol is sometimes abused, despite it's unscheduled regulation.
I don't know of any other advice I can give, other than to say that I feel for you.
Here is a website that has been posted concerning opiate abuse and detoxing, take it for what it's worth.
Gtrplayer
February 7, 2007 - 10:39am
#10
My husband claims that there
My husband claims that there are 2 different types of Tramadol one with codine and one with out and the people on here must be taking the one with codine in it he says because the one that he takes will not do this to you.. I personally do not beleive a word that he tells me and I think that there is just one Tramadol and one only.. And yes its the one that he is abusing....
Thanks for all your thoughts...
February 7, 2007 - 10:57am
#11
your husband is WRONG there
your husband is WRONG there is no such thing as tramadol with codiene in it.
there is tramadol with tylenol and tramadol without tylenol but that is about it.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
February 7, 2007 - 12:09pm
#12
I agree with Phisher. The
I agree with Phisher. The only other ingredient to a tramadol preparation, that I know of, is acetaminophen. If the drug is pure tramadol, it's ultram. If it has acetaminophen, it's Ultracet. Either way, neither combinations contain Codeine.
I hate to say this, but with an addict, it's always the "other person" who doesn't know what they are talking about. I feel bad for you, but rest assured, we do know what we are talking about. Ask him to provide you with PROOF that there is a tramadol with codeine in it. Don't be surprised if you get, "Well, I'm not sure of the exact name of it". It doesn't exist.
Gtrplayer
February 8, 2007 - 7:54am
#13
Does anyone have any
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get someone like this help? He is saying that he does not have a problem and the month of Dec. is the first time that he ever got his Tramadol filled like that,, I don't hardly beleive him I mean he might not have gotten it filled 5 times on the other months but I can remember at least 2 times where he had it filled and claims that they didn't put it in the bad or if they did he must have trashed it( YEA RIGHT) I did beleive him at the time but now I think back on it and look at today he was lying the whole time...Tramadol is one of Walmarts $4.00 drugs.. This makes it easier to get... He is still saying that he is not abussing his medicines and everyone knows that he is... This week his mood had been ALOT better so we are getting along good... But just don't know what to do...
I would take any suggestions that I can get..
Thanks cindy
February 9, 2007 - 6:29pm
#14
Sorry to bring this thread
Sorry to bring this thread back up, but I have a question for barbiedoll1973_tn
You said that he went through 5 refills in one month? Out of curiosity, how many pills are rx'd at a time and what are the dosing instructions? Usually, a pharmacy will not fill a prescription that many times in one month.
Gtrplayer
April 12, 2007 - 1:20pm
#15
i dunnoooooo
I used to be heavily addicted to opiates (oxycontin in the earlier stages) and I can tell you that one time I came across tramadol and it did absolutely nothing. It gives like a little bit of a euphoric affect. I couldn't see why anyone would want to abuse it, but it is longer lasting so his explanation that it makes his oxy last longer does make sense. I duno, maybe you should relax and be a little more trusting, or if you really think it's bad and want to help don't approach him like you're his mother. Act like a wife that loves him and is concerned for his well-being, not wether or not he's lieing to you.
April 12, 2007 - 1:27pm
#16
the weirdest part is that
the weirdest part is that you're more concerned about the tramadol than the oxy. The potential for abuse and addiction in oxycodone/contin is way higher than that of tramadol. He could have started getting withdrawals from the oxy and been using the tramadol to try to switch over and get off the oxy, which if he was in a bad mood and didn't look well could have likely been what he was doing because he would probably still get a little withdrawal trying to switch. I duno, but oxy is something i would be alot more concerned about than tramadol.
November 20, 2008 - 12:16am
#17
Agree with facedown
Act like a wife not a mother. GET HIM INTO REHAB...just speaking from experience. Especially since you have kids.
Keep in mind I am not a; doctor, a pharmacist, a counselor, or any professional for that matter. My posts are not meant for medical advice, nor should you use it that way. I am simply a college student/ guinnea pig/ drug addict. Thanks for your concern.
August 1, 2009 - 10:35am
#18
Hey everyone..# 1 if my
Hey everyone..
# 1 if my husband HAD BEEN actling like a huband and father INSTEAD of a teenage boy then his WIFE (ME) would be able to act like a wife INSTEAD of a MOTHER...
# 2. I WANT a HUSBAND AND FATHER For myself and my children NOT A DRUGY..
# 3. I was doing EVERYTHING in my POWER to save my husband..
#4. Feb. 2008 we got him into REHAB.. so my MOTHERLY ACTIONS SAVED MY HUSBANDS LIFE..
#5. IF THIS HAPPENS AGAIN MY CHILDREN AND I WILL LEAVE HIM. HE HAS BEEN WARNED OF THIS..
THIS IS ???$* TO GO THROUGH I HAVE WENT THROUGH THIS ONCE AND IT WILL BE MY LAST..
UPDATE.. My husband is still doing really good.. BUT I do mean what i say I have put myself and my children through ???$* with this and i WILLNOT do it again..
August 1, 2009 - 7:45pm
#19
Hey Barbie . . . Q here
You should check out the "New Analgesic on the market" thread on the "CP and PM" banner, it is more about Nucynta than Tramadol/Ultram but they are cousins. Tramadol, besides being a weak opioid agonist on the mu-opioid receptor is also a non-selective seratonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Note the non-selective action . . . it's similar in addictive qualities to the tricyclic anti-depressant Elavil/Amitryrptyline as well as in it's rather bad side effects. These so called analgesics are actually psychotropic nightmares. I feel that they should be Rxed by psychiatrists rather than PMDs.
All of the posters on this thread would also benefit from the info on this thread as well as past topics on Tramadol/Ultram. Good luck Barbie, if your husband is so into a buzz that he would abuse a basically worthless but still dangerous drug like Tramadol he needs serious help.
August 5, 2009 - 1:05am
#20
You cannot save him
I read your story with anguish as your story is familiar. From personal experience, you cannot "save" him nor make him get help. No amount of pleading, screaming or "warnings of what will happen if" - will change him; addiction is his battle and you are outside of it. Again from experience, children, although we think they don't see or understand all of those broken promises and pipedreams, are damaged when a parent is an addict. It creates for them a world of anxiety with feelings of low self-worth.....call it the "if he loved me more, he would have stopped" syndrome. You as the wife can enable, can turn your head, can make excuses and defend him or mean what you have said, and walk away. Whether you are act as a wife or a mother, it is again his battle and whatever words you choose to use, remain only words. I read your defensiveness of him and it sounds hauntly familiar; for there were so many times I did the same. Yes I would say, he is doing well and yes he has beaten it this time.....whispering to myself, please don't ask me any questions. For me and my daughter (eight at the time), none of what we did, said or tried mattered.
The last words I said to him, as he left the house on the Fourth of July was that I didn't care if he ever came back. Just an expression, but just another of those days when I knew he would not be back when he said he would. See I knew the drill, any excuse to leave - any excuse to find drugs, do drugs and lie to me, to us, one more time. You probably know about this scenario.
I've often thought of those last words....and a piece of me still cries as I visit his grave......no I could not save him, could not change him, could not threaten him with the "what if's" and could not make him get help.
Remember that you fool no one but yourself...for in the end, "they" always knew what was happening.....afterall, the excuses I made for him, even on that final day, were just words.
August 28, 2009 - 11:54am
#21
EH
Check this out Barbie lady, why don't you worry less about what YOU want and more about what your Husband wants, Tramadol is used as a mild antidepressant and for premature %$#@^@&^?!& as well, Oxycodone is super addictive much more of a problem than tramadol, the fact that your Husband even has to lie about it is preposterous, he is a grown man he can take and do what he wants, whether it be bean sprouts, tramadol, marijuana, or cocaine, its his choice not yours, and if you leave him, I'm sure he has the means and the money to take the kids from you, so, so what
August 28, 2009 - 7:23pm
#22
Tramadol
does anyone think that if someone has been taken oxycpdone and want to get off of it, would tramadol help thru the w/ds?
August 30, 2009 - 8:44pm
#23
Barbiedoll , what was he
Barbiedoll , what was he prescribed the tramadol for in the first place ?
August 31, 2009 - 8:43pm
#24
Tike, that question is
Tike, that question is answered in several other threads, but to help you out, many people agree that yes, it does HELP, but that doesnt mean its going to be a cake walk, especially if you are addicted and going cold turkey. A physically dependant person who's been on oxycodone for some time should do a slow taper and ask your doctor what he recommends to help ease the process IE benzodiazapines.
September 1, 2009 - 1:40am
#25
tike check out this link
I searched for personal reports of people using tramadol for withdrawals and found the following page.
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Pharms_Tramadol.shtml#Health_Benefits
I only read a few but these people say it was a life saver for getting off harder drugs, even heroin. Best of all a few said it also helped with their chronic pain and that they didn't have withdrawals from it.
Everyone varies but I think it would help you if getting off percocet (if I remember correctly)
best to you
(I'm going to copy and paste this in the other thread you were asking about this in, just to make sure you see it)
September 3, 2009 - 7:12pm
#26
Thanks folks
very good information, and it has helped, and I did do that, I tapered very quickly off the oxy and was able to reverse into tramadol but I know I must be careful with that too. but right now its working great for me, and really it helps with the pain.
September 3, 2009 - 10:39pm
#27
Excellent!!!! I am so happy
Excellent!!!! I am so happy for you! I wish you continued success. Good luck tike.
October 7, 2009 - 1:32am
#28
tramadol
I have a very bad knee and when i goto thedoctor they say they cannot prescibe me the tramadol. nowmy mother had givinme a dose of a 200mg pill and it was extremely effective i felt able to walk at ease.now they keep giving me thismedicine called naproxen 500mg and it doesnothing.. what should i do to obtain tramadol for my pain. i am 24 years old AND i do not have good enough health coverage to see a pcp..im hurting bad and i idont know what to do to get rid of the pain... and i refuse to use vicodin and percocets and for sure not oxy's.some helpguide my situatiuon
thanks
October 7, 2009 - 1:40am
#29
Well if you vacation in
Well if you vacation in Mexico it is available without an rx.
You just cant bring it back over the border Im pretty sure.
October 7, 2009 - 6:26pm
#30
Is the Pain bad enough??? Does it Run your Life...?..
jonjon-
I can totally understand not wanting to take a schedule II narcotic. The media has done a wonderful job of filling our heads with all this jargon about whats good and whats bad for you. Remember when "they" told us cigarettes were just fine, no health issues will arise from it..... Right....
I for one do not like pain medication (Sched II) but unfortunately the pain stemming from my condition (CRPS) both legs (4 failed fasciotomys) drives my life and the medication I take. I always say to the doctor if you can prescribe me an antibiotic that will kill my pain and let me live my life ill take it. The point is if apple juice killed the pain I would use that but it doesn't medication such as Opana enables me to get out of bed and go to wrok and pay my mortgage. I do what I have to do to survive, I wish I had the choice for medications.
Have you tried midocaine/lidocaine injections? Have you had an MRI or EEG.
I know I use Lidocaine patches everyday along with Opana 10mg twice a day, Neurontin 600mg TID, Endocet 10/325 for BT and the Old Fentanyl Patch 50 mcg every 72hrs and lately I have been experiencing pain flareups that cut right thru all of that like a hot knife and always at the worst times.
Today I was presenting a power point presentation to a room full of senior global vice presidents and I had a sever flareup to which I had to excuse myself. Point is the search can be long and arduous, so hang in there and keep us posted on your progress.
Cheers
-Patches-
October 7, 2009 - 7:44pm
#31
A PCP is primary care
A PCP is primary care physician or family doctor. Try going back to the dr that gave you the naproxen and tell him that it is not working. I would not tell him that your mom gave you some tramadol and it worked. But that is me. Doctors will generally give tramadol as opposed to Cll or Cll drugs. Good luck, htmom
October 7, 2009 - 10:44pm
#32
tramodol life saver
i take tramodol and it works great for me i have wrecked 2 motocycles a dirt bike and a moped and my knees are screwed. The only thing with tramodol is that the doc might give u 50mg tabs at first every 6 hours that wont work but the 100mg tabs 4 times a day will work for chronic knee pain.usually doctors are more than happy to prescribe them because they cant get sued for handing out narcotics u shouldnt have any problem getting them.good luck jon jon 1385
October 9, 2009 - 8:11am
#33
No it won't help , tapering
No it won't help , tapering down and/or switching to buprenophine will minimise or remove w/d symptoms.
All comments are the users opinion and are not to be construed as medical advice.
October 9, 2009 - 12:02pm
#34
jonjon is a dea troll. people
jonjon is a dea troll. people on this site dont link to illegal sources of medications online. good luck
October 9, 2009 - 12:10pm
#35
i take 50mg pills maybe 3
i take 50mg pills maybe 3 times a day and it does nothing for me
October 9, 2009 - 6:07pm
#36
Tramadol/Ultram as well as
Tramadol/Ultram as well as their supposedly stronger and most definitely more expensive cousin, NuCynta, are extremely mild mu opioid receptor antagonists. T/U as well as Nu are both nonspecific seratonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs). Amatryptylene/Elavil is a tricyclic anti-depressant, an SNRI that does not act as a mu opioid receptor antagonist. These non-specific SNRIs have caused many posters to report some very nasty psychological side effects and I personally think they they should only be Rxed by a psychiatrist/psychopharmacologist . . . Q
Tramadol is an Non-opiate Synthetic Analgesic