May 25, 2008 - 4:09am
Was wondering if there is merit to the manufacturer Mallinckrod being a sub-standard generic? Have gone out of my way to use pharmacies that use Watson , specifically for Vicodin and now Norco. Target has used Watson for the 2 plus years I have been using them. Got my script for generic Norco filled and they have switched to Mallinckrod and Im completely bummed,having read all the negative comments, thanks.
May 25, 2008 - 12:24pm
#2
Mally's
I have had Oxycodone tablet's for b/t with my other ER tablet's and I really tried to determine the difference What I did was have some extra b/t med's one being Mallincroft brand, with at least 1 week of that script The other was Amide and I can say for ME I could not tell the difference at all, not a speck. I read where it is less expensive than any other generic. I am sure to a particular person he/she does find a difference and that is all that matters. There are too many negative posts regarding Mallincroft I kept my mind open trying not to get influenced by anything. That does show that people do react very different to different brands. It was a very intersting small trial though certainly no scientific one by any means. I would have no problem taking Malincroft's brand if my regular phamacy was out and had to wait 2 days or so and this has happened once.
May 25, 2008 - 2:00pm
#3
differences in generics
I have to say that I noticed a hge difference in the generic somas from one pharmacy to another.
now mind you at the time I wasnt sure who the manufacturers were I just knew that if i got them filled at Rite Aid, i was ending up with less effective pain control than if i get them filled at CVS. now the dr. recently switched me to a soma/codeine compound, and again, not working as well... i found out last night the mg of soma is lower so that may be the reason...
I think everybody has a preference of which generics work better for them.
:0)
Lilbit aka Linda
Cervial disk rupture at c5/c6.Rupture took bone spurs and embedded them into spinal cord. Cervical Spinal Fusion, then Fustla repair of spinal cord to seal hole left by bone spur removal.
Fibromyalgia
May 25, 2008 - 4:11pm
#4
I have never noticed a
I have never noticed a difference in the hydrocodone. Alot of people say they can, but I have not.
The only time I have noticed a defference in generics was with oxycodone. In this instance, the mallinkrodt 512 actually seems superior to the Watson 749 imo.
However, I dont think it has to do with quality of the oxycodone or the quantity contained. I think the mallies "feel" more potent, simply because they are not as dense as the Watson, resulting in a quicker absorption.
May 25, 2008 - 6:20pm
#5
My opinion on Watson vs.
My opinion on Watson vs. Mallinckrodt is exactly the opposite of yours Pizz.
I think the 512's are junk, even with taking two! I do however like the Mallinckrodt 10/325 Oxycodone (weird I know). I also think that the Malli's are more dense than the Watsons.If you put a Watson on your tongue it will start to melt almost instantly, but the Mallinckrodts seem to stay together much longer. I do agree with one of the other posters towards the top that the Mallinckrodt 10/500's are actually pretty good, I seem to get a tolerance to the pretty fast though. If I switch from Watons to Malli 10/500 the first few weeks seem to be better, but after that they seem to be like taking an aspirin. When this happens I just switch back to the Wastons and start the cycle over again. As far as the norcos go, I havent had the Mallinckrodt but I dont like the Watson name brand or generic 10/325 at all, but I do like there 5/325.
Oh yeah, to the OP if Target is charging you the same price for the Mallinckrodt as they where for the Watsons, you should switch pharmacies. The Mallinckrodt are considerably cheaper, and for this reason Walmarts and the big membership clubs seem to use them.
May 25, 2008 - 10:24pm
#6
Its weird, everybody seems
Its weird, everybody seems to have a preference.
I hardly ever have to take oxycodone/apap, or hydro/apap, but when I do, my favorite generic perc are the Endocet 10/325's and 7.5/500's.
For hydro, I prefer the 7.5/500 Watsons even over the 10's (assuming I would still be getting the same daily dose of narcotic, just w/ a different dosing schedule). I know, more apap, but for some reason, I get better relief from these than I do the 10/500's (all in my head, I know).
But, if I can get a doc to give the Zydone 10's, these are hands down the best hydro combo I have ever had. They work extremely fast, and for some reason they dont give me heartburn; a problem I have with every other preparation of apap (w/ a narcotic or not). They arent very popular though, so I rarely am rx'd them, although these days, I dont think I could get by with them, since my tolerance has risen substantially since having them last.
May 26, 2008 - 12:48am
#7
My Opinion on Mall-vs. Qualitest
I have 10/325 norco prescribed for cervical spinal pain after a anterior fusion failed and I ended up with 3 major surgeries in less than 2 months. For b/t pain I have had the qualitest yellow color dispensed to me. I notice with them they last alot longer than Mall. by coincedense my pharmacy switched to mall's. they release faster -but are not the quality that qualitest is. the qualitest lasted alot longer also my stomach is funky with the mall -who knows? I have both so I am going to really pay attention to this. hope this helps anyone. thanks for letting me share my opinion.---------------blueangel
May 29, 2008 - 10:16am
#8
Generics vs Brand name
This is a copy and paste of my comment from the generic or dispense as written topic, but felt I needed to add it here too...
For a couple years now, I am always reading on this site about brand names vs generics and certain generics vs other generics. So now I finally have to ask or bring up what I thought was correct. I thought that the FDA regulates all drugs and that they must be the same, for example....Perocet, endocet, and let's say roxicet that are all written for 5/500 to someone, how is it possible for one to be better than the other, they must all have 5mg of oxycodone and 500 of APAP, right? If I get brand name, roche 2mg Klonopin, the K cut outs or any other generic, any 2mg clonazepam, shouldn't they all be the same, and if they aren't then some companies are ripping us off and endagering lives for not having in that drug what is suppose to be there, as in the 5mg of oxy or 2mg of k-pin. See what I'm getting at here?
May 29, 2008 - 6:39pm
#9
The difference in them is.......
this is how my doc explained this very question to me.....The difference in the generics is not the main medication..
if your to be getting the generic version of Vicodin 7.5/750 apap
your getting the 7.5 generic form hydrocodone... the difference between one generic & another is the diffrenet absorbers they put in the med's..... the cheaper made, the less effective they work...
your still getting the right amount of your medication, some drug company's just use different absorbers in them.. they get absorbed into the body/blood stream differently..... not a fast Ect...
thats how he explained it to me...
Lilbit aka Linda
Cervial disk rupture at c5/c6.Rupture took bone spurs and embedded them into spinal cord. Cervical Spinal Fusion, then Fustla repair of spinal cord to seal hole left by bone spur removal.
Fibromyalgia
May 29, 2008 - 6:40pm
#10
Mallies
my 2 cents on the whole mallnk topic that comes up at least once a week is that there products are terrible. What it all boils down to is the all mighty dollar. All the chain pharmacies try to get the cheapest possible meds and sell them at the most money possible...most chain pharmacies and department stores buy massive amounts of meds in bulk to their distro centers and then send them to the individual stores. That is why sometimes if you ask the pharmacist to order you a specific brand name they say that they cannot. I personally think that all of the mallnk oxycodone hcl, oxycodone/apap combos, and hydrocodone/apap products are so inferior to the brand name counter parts. I have been on alot of their products at different times and I had to take like double my dose to get any sort of relief. Their 512 percocet are sooo bad in my opinion BUT their percocet 10/325 are very good, i believe that solo5010 mentioned the same thing. It seems like they have the market on lock at this point. I also think that watsons percocet are terrible as well. but there hydrocodone/apap products are very effective. I guess some of it has to do with the individual person but I know what works for me and mallnk DONT. Interesting mallnk provides all of the methadone hcl to all companies that manufacture it. So Roxane gets their bulk dolophine hcl from mallnk. Very weird in my opionion. Another poin I have is that without mentioning the exact pharmacy by name if you were to fill a rx for 2 percocet 5/325 or 30 5/325 they charge the same $10.99 so they are making money hand over foot with the smaller quantites. When I was on percocet for a few months I had my dr write it for ROXICET 5/325 Dispense as written or ENDOCET 5/325 Dispense as written IMO those two are the best. At one point my dr put me on 10/325 percocet #120 two weeks supply and it cost me like $185 for brand name way too expensive for me so I had him just write it for Roxicet 5/325 #240 DAW which is actually generic so it wasnt too bad, i had to pay out of pocket and then get reimbursed from Workers Comp. ....sorry went off topic a little bit but thats my 3 cents
May 29, 2008 - 7:32pm
#11
Mallies, are they inferior?
I responded on 5/25 on this topic. I feel after using the Malls-as I said I also have Qualitest, I have just used the Malls -to put it as nicely as possible they really STINK!! No way do they have the ability to manage pain for myself. I must agree with the blunt and true comments it is the $$$$$ --- it is very unfortunate if this is what pharmacies & health insurance companies are trying to steer the patient with the cost of this stomach rotting, useless joke of a generic norco formula. I have been alot better off with the Qualitest brand. I am prescribed 4 a day.The reason now I realize I have more of the Qualitest is because I was able to use no more than 2-3 per day. That is how well they worked for me personally. If this is the only choice I have or other people in the same soup pot, in the end result a person in pain would perhaps take an extra tablet because the relief from the Mall is not happening.This really has the potential to get nasty in many ways. Thanks for letting me share.
May 30, 2008 - 4:46am
#12
mallies 10/325
Ihave tried the mallie version of norco and are not as bad as I thought although I will be switching pharmacies to find one that doesnt use them.Not easy to do though as they seem to be everywhere here in n.Illinois.
May 30, 2008 - 10:57am
#13
10mg mallies
IMO mallies x*#&! But the 10mg ones are pretty good. Granted this is just my opinion. To jimrockford: Try going to a small mom&pop pharmacy. Usually should not have a problem getting watsons or something other than mallies.
May 31, 2008 - 5:28am
#14
Response to Hydro
Thanks for your advice,hard enough getting the script shouldnt have to put up with pharmacies greed.
May 31, 2008 - 9:51am
#15
I have been on opiates for
I have been on opiates for years and taken had them from almost every major manufacturer that's out there and have NEVER noticed a difference, besides the appearance of the pill, size, shape, color..etc...I think that most people who have a problem with the different manufacturers that's it's all in your head. I'm sure you've know the law on the difference between generic and brand name drugs so i won't go into that.
Ray
Remember: Just do it.. EVERY PILL EVERY DAY
June 7, 2008 - 11:11am
#16
Search my username for comments
mallies vs others
I have tried them all I think the pharms have been more of a pain so its harder to "window shop" different brands to avoid looking like a seeker.
It probably is a body chemistry issue yet there are many posts across the net accusing mallies of being an inferior product and with all that data I am sure there is a good bit of truth ..so yes for most people malies are an inferior product but most all pharms are going with them due to the new "prescription price wars" that have broken out in the past few years and buyers are forced to buy the cheapest due to their respective bottom line" metrics" (i hate metrics)
anyway remember the FDA allows a(+- 10%) in active ingredient in generic vs brand name so for example every 100 norcos you may only actualy get 90(in real active ingredient)....and then you complain to your dr. and everyone thinks your a fiend. and it just a simple science equation.
hope this gives you some help and another avenue to research.
PS I take ETHEX special order from Target...I hate nat chains kbut they are at least working with me albeit every month I get that "look"
take care
June 7, 2008 - 2:52pm
#17
Mallies, are they inferior?
I realize that this subject is a very popular continuing question that is asked. I spoke with my phamacist recently in referance to this deal with Mallies, he said he has heard many negative comments on Mall products over the last few years. He said over 20 some years ago Mall co. was considered a very good generic company. He feels $$$ and the joining forces with Tyco corporation has led to the deterioration of the phamacutical quality going with cost effecient formula's . It is all about money and profit and having the major chains using (domination) this company. Thanks
June 8, 2008 - 3:37pm
#18
I agree with everyone else
I agree with everyone else here, mallys are horrible! the FDA should make them change the makeup of their pills.
I'm a social worker, not a medical professional. All comments and thoughts are simply my opinion and experience.
June 15, 2008 - 1:52am
#19
Orange Book rating
All of Mallinckrodts Generic drugs recieved an AB rating in the FDA orange book, meaning that both levels of serum bioavailability were within 2 percent of the same formulation of the brand name active ingredient. Essentially it is pharmacologically impossible for them to be inferior. If you get them from a U.S. Licensed pharmacy, that is.
June 15, 2008 - 6:34am
#20
Watson, Mallinckrodt
Hi.
I find that the best compounded hydrocodone (I much prefer pure hydro) is made by Mallinckrodt. Specifically 'M367' which is 10mg, but with 325mg paracetamol in them. One guy has commented that I am paranoid about that drug but there is no denying that it is responsible for more deaths annually than any prescription analgesic. So WHY do the USA have this stupid law which prevents their residents from buying proper hydrocodone?
OK, it's expensive. I have just paid $299 + all the extras for a single box of 60 x 10mg hydrocodone, DICODID, made by Knoll (Abbott) in Germany. Mention pain and you will NOT get a script. In Europe, Hydrocodone is an antitussive, not an analgesic. You must have an intractable dry cough to get scripted for Dicodid. $6 almost for a single tablet may sound a lot, but I use it very occasionally indeed. If I can find a friend in the USA who has a script (which only costs about $56 for 120 count 10/325) then I will risk the liver. But an effective dose to me is at least 30mg. In my money that is GBP£10. About the same as a 40mg OxyContin.
NORCO is just a fancy brand-name for Watson's 10/325mg tablet. They can charge more for the name than for simply describing it as what it is. Watson 385, or 358 or something similar. Yet another example of American profiteering. You would think they'd be content having the most expensive medicines in the world, but no, they have to squeeze people by taking advantage of the American brand-mania. [Notice that it's about the only place where they will describe any diazepam as 'Valium' even though that is only the Roche brand.] I have also tried Vintage/Qualitest's equivalent, and that isn't too bad; but Mallinckrodt definitely make the best. And you'll find that the American Pharmacists Association agree with me there. ALL of Mallinckrodt's narcotic analgesics are superior. Again I suspect that just because they can be had cheaper than other makes, most US residents think they MUST be inferior. Claptrap. Either that or there is something in their gene pool which affects their uptake of the inactive ingredients. 10mg hydro is 10mg hydro no matter who makes it.
Have you noticed how often Mallinckrodt is discussed on this site? WHY? You'd think folks would be grateful for the extremely cheap pricing policy.
But do not be misled by the fact that Watson brand one of their strengths (NORCO) whilst still selling it, exactly the same tablet, as a cheaper generic! Profiteers will one day get what's coming to them. There is an analgesic 'gap' here which I have mentioned before, where there is NOTHING in between dihydrocodeine (which in the US must also be compounded with that APAP) and morphine sulphate 10mg or 20mg. Which I can not take because it makes me sick. If only my doctor would relent and prescribe me Diconal (dipipanone/cyclizine) on the Health Service, then I would be fine insofar as my breakthrough and tail-ending issues are concerned; it's equivalent in strength to the likes of hydromorphone. It's known as 'Welconal' in South Africa, probably because it was always made by Wellcome. I can't remember what that company is now part of. But it is always pink and imprinted 'F3A'.
Can I add that it has not escaped my attention, even from such a distance, that several companies use the active alkaloids supplied by the very Mallinckrodt company which is so maligned, yet people don't seem to realise. I can't name names, but many other generic narcotic analgesics are exactly the same as Mallinckrodt's, but we don't hear much about the supposed inferior quality of any of those. The very worst American products I have had have always been made by Mylan. I don't think I have ever had a decent med carrying that name.
Hope I didn't stray too much off-topic there. Don't think so. But that is my opinion and also that of people who know their pharmacology much better than I. Just please don't get taken in by aggressive tactics and advantage being taken of the mania for brand-names over the actual name of the drug involved which is prevalent in the USA. Hope I have helped a little.
Gaucho
PS I notice I've reached 60 posts - that's not a lot for someone who's been around here as long as I have!
"NEVER ingest anything unless you are 100% sure what it is."
(edited)
June 16, 2008 - 3:23am
#21
If I am reading your post
If I am reading your post right you said you are in Germany, correct? I just wonder because you use quite different terminology for many commonly discussed medications here. I had to look some up that I did not know, i.e. paracetamol is acetaminophen, and dicodid is hydrocodone.
there was also quite a lot that you discussed, so I cannot address everything, although there were a few things that I wanted to clarify or talk about. I first wanted to ask where you got your information about hydrocodone/acetaminophen combinations being responsible for more deaths than any other prescription analegsic? Or were you speaking only about acetaminophen/tylenol?
Also, hydro as an antitussin is also used here in the US as a cough syrup, although I am pretty sure the hydrocodone is at pretty low doses. I know narcotics are available and offered different in all countries, just as other countries may not have the equivalent of our FDA to say whether things are safe and/or legal or not. From my understanding there are several countries who are much more lenient with narcotics, benzos, and the common scheduled drug.
You said if you do take US hydrocodone/tylenol preparations you have to risk the liver. Although tylenol/acetaminophen does have effects on the liver, taking it at low doses is usually safe for most people. I do not say all because I am sure there is someone out there who has had ill effects from it, although there are people who have had ill effects from every different kind of medication there is out there. Anyway, a person can have up to 4000mg, or 4g of acetaminophen and still be safe. More than that puts one at risk of liver damage. therefore, taking the 10/325 Norco one could potentially have up to 12 pills/day and still be at a safe level.
You are right that America is all about brands and names, people are always willing to pay more just for a name, although not as much when it comes to pharmaceuticals. I never knew which pharm company made which pills when I took them, I just took whatever pill the pharmacy gave me and formed my own opinions of the quality of the different brands. It was not until later on that I learned who made what, and found Mally made most of the pills I did not like, as well as others. I find that most of mally pills are more chalky and make me sick.
I guess it is just because each person is different, and all chemicals or substances have different effects on each person. I do not know chemistry well, I only know how my body reacts to things. I found with my fentanyl patches that Mylan works best for me rather than Watson or sandoz, whereas many other people I have heard of feel completely opposite. When I ask for that brand at my pharmacy they say that no one usually wants that brand. Again, its just me.
Thank you for all your comments, opinions, and insights though. I found them interesting, and raised many valid points. I look forward to reading more from you.
I'm a social worker, not a medical professional. All comments and thoughts are simply my opinion and experience.
July 27, 2008 - 11:31pm
#22
Paracetamol/acetaminophen
In fact it is NOT the hydrocodone combos that are responsible for the deaths, it is the paracetamol. Openly available without prescription, this drug kills more people annually than about all other drugs put together.
Any dosage over 4g/day is likely to produce liver damage and i know that it is also cumulative, so taking the maximum dose for an extended period increases your chances of liver failure.
DICODID by the way is a brand-name for 10mg hydrocodone tablets (they make 5mg too) without any paracetamol. It is made by Knoll/Abbott and can be found in the image galleries here on this site.,
As for fentanyl patches, I found the Mylan pretty useless, then was changed onto Durogesic D-trans patches, which were wonderful. 75mcg/hour for three days, but very expensive.
Gaucho
"NEVER ingest anything unless you are 100% sure what it is."
July 30, 2008 - 1:36pm
#23
mall vs. watson
have been on 10/325 mall for 4 years. changed companies now Im on watson yellow pill. I was taking 2-3 daily. The watson seem to make me have an upset stomach and weird feeling, hard to explain but its not good. Seems to be better if I cut doesage but sill somewhat the same. I had no problem with malls. I went to a IMP company because #$% hole insurance company would make me pay for my pills then take forever to pay me back. Its a long frustrating story, anyhelp appreciated, may have to change back, thanks
October 9, 2008 - 6:11pm
#24
Generic composition
Looking back over this thread I noticed something that had previously escaped my attention; someone posted that the US FDA allows a +or- 10% difference in the amount of active ingredient in a generic version of a previously patented drug. This is quite startling, since everywhere else in the world, so far as I am aware, the generic MUST contain BY LAW, EXACTLY the same amount of the active substance as the 'original' brand. Thus, any 10mg diazepam must contain 10mg, not 9mg or 11mg, but 10mg exactly. There are severe penalties in force, certainly in the UK, for any company who describe a drug as being, say, 100mg but containing only 90mg of the drug in question. This is really extremely worrying. What purpose does that serve? It encourages sloppy pharmaceutical practices and also can benefit only profiteers and can be a danger to patients in some cases where exact dosing is required.
I have already stated that hydrocodone, unavailable here, a weak-ish narcotic analgesic which is totally over-priced, but a useful drug due to its in-between strength, has been tried by this writer on quite a few occasions in three makes, all 10mg with 325mg paracetamol. I stress that as an infrequent user due to the difficulties involved in obtaining this drug, of all that I have tried, the 'M367' Mallinckrodt generic has been found to be the most effective and highest quality make I have tried by a LONG way. I have said almost all I can on the subject, except peaps that the profiteering by Watson is disgraceful. Their '853' (got the number right now!) 10mg tablet is produced with two different imprints; the same tablet marked 'NORCO' is sold at a much higher price than that imprinted 'WATSON 853'. There is absolutely NO difference between the two except the name embossed on the tablet. However that is of little consequence since the Vintage/Qualitest, which appears to have a longer duration of action, and the Mallinckrodt versions are both better and the Mallinckrodt most definitely is the finest of all.
I doubt that any other jurisdiction would allow a generic drug to vary at all in strength from the original - I have to stress most strongly that I find this very disturbing indeed. Would there be agreement from members from any country at all, especially the USA where this is allow to happen?
The only time I have questioned the actual composition of a drug has been with the Wyeth ATIVAN (lorazepam) 2mg (NOT 2.5mg, the standard strength available in Europe) made in Goa, India. I had a btch of those and to be perfectly honest they were not as effective as even a 1mg UK generic. I still have a couple lying around, having gotten hold of a decent 2.5mg make, so intend taking them to the University for testing. It will surprise me if the result comes back as saying that there is 2mg lorazepam in each tablet. I needed to take three tablets to obtain the effect I would normally expect from a single 2.5mg dose of a European lorazepam.
This is such an important issue that I should have really started a new thread on it. What ARE the US FDA thinking about? Feedback anybody?
"NEVER ingest anything unless you are 100% sure what it is."
I think its is diferent for everyone. Most people seem to think that they are terrible. I agree that they seem weaker except for the m363 (10/500). Granted I have only had 7.5's ant 10/500. I have never had the 10/325. Try them and let us know what you think.