April 7, 2007 - 3:11pm
#2
might as well jump in...
i agree. i would not want a clinic in my neighborhood.
additionally, i think there is a significant difference between an drug addict that is on a methadone treatment plan and say a 60 year old lady that is using it for chronic pain management.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
April 7, 2007 - 8:18pm
#3
I don't want one in my
I don't want one in my neighborhood either. Any sort of free clinic should be on the grounds of a charity hospital or government agency. No clinics of any kind should be in a residential area, 'specially a free clinic. It's OK if these clinics stay in business areas, like in downtown buildings or complexes well away from homes. Best place for free services is on hospital grounds though. JMHO.
April 8, 2007 - 7:43am
#4
methadone clinics--I know!!
My sister is a parole officer, and it helps her job when she runs into her "clients" when they aren't on supervised visits to her. Put the clinic by her office, that makes her (and us!) happy.
April 9, 2007 - 7:22pm
#5
gtrplayer and phisher
gtrplayer and phisher, 2 of my should i say support in my other post about my methadone dilema playin both sides?? No I'm just playing I see your points and respect them and know this post really doesn't relate to much to mine and really do appreciate all your support.
June 5, 2007 - 9:56am
#6
FREE?
sweet, i don't know where you live but every methadone clinic i've ever heard of is fairly expensive. the one i go to and across the state here is approx. $400 a month. the only "free clinics" i've ever heard of treat STD's, lol. and they don't put them in residential neighborhoods the one i attend is on the edge of the city limits.
I saw another poster who said there is a difference between a drug addict seeking methadone therapy and a sixty year old woman going there for pain management. i don't know about everywhere but the laws in my state say that clinics can only treat drug addicts and are not allowed to treat pain management.
sorry it took so long for me to check back on this thread, but thanks to everyone for their input you're way too kind... 
June 5, 2007 - 3:10pm
#7
I live and work in a nice
I live and work in a nice middle class suburban neighborhood on the outskirts of a major metropolitain area. If a methadone clinic opened up in my neighborhood it would probably draw nice clean employed suburban addicts, especially if the clinic did not take any insurance plans, especially medicaid plans. It would be not unlike the addiction psychiatrist in the neighborhood or the offices that see suboxone patients. The only difference would be the number of patients seen each day.
The office next door ran an IV infusion clinic primarily for viral hepatitis patients, none of whom were from the neighborhood, They had a van that went around and collected the patients, took them to the office and drove them home again. The patients were no problem, but the office was raided by the FBI and closed down!
June 20, 2007 - 8:32am
#8
Methadone, of course
TO Fentanyl g, I too am a huge fan of Methadone, not only is it dirt cheap, the right dose will guarantee a sunny day, you would have to be out of your mind, rich or just unaware of Methadone. I get mine legally through a pain doc in tabs (that liquid at those clinics x*#&s) and no I would for sure NOT want a clinic next door or even on my block, I was forced to go to one (because I couldn't find a good pain doc) the element that goes around a Methadone clinic is crazy ! not to mention that it is a local favorite hangout for the Sheriffs dept. if they feel like it, and are slow they can pick out a doser driving off and they will arrest you and you will get a full on DUI, go to jail etc. I know this because I did get puulled over, they demanded a urine sample and I did get a DUI, because driving on ANY amount of Methadone is illegal, I chose not to do the 9 months in their hotel so I did get a DUI attorney and it cost me $6500 with the fines, so watch out to those of you dashing away from the clinic in your car, look both ways, above, under over because this was 8 years ago, the fines have no doubt skyrocketed since.
take it easy !
June 20, 2007 - 8:43am
#9
Free ?
I guess it all depends what state you are in but in Calif. Methadone maintenance is $210 a month, not bad concerning the alternative. You are right Methadone clinics are ONLY allowed to treat Heroin addicts, I know this because I popped into one 5 years ago or so and told them that I had really bad Percodan habit, the woman told me " oh no there is nothing we can do for you here, this place is for Heroin addicts only, bye.
ps oh yeah, I forgot to say that if you are on Medi-Cal they will pick up the tab.
June 20, 2007 - 8:52am
#10
Why did you not have them
Why did you not have them conduct a blood test to determine the serum level of methadone in your system? If it is doctor ordered, and within the therapeutic dose range, I do not see how the officer could pull you over and cite you with a DUI, unless, you actually were under the influence of the drug (immediately after taking the medicine).
Just to be clear on something, are you using the term "dozing off" to simply imply that someone is tired, and taking a nap? Or are you using dozing off as an interchangeable term with "nodding off"? If the officer sees someone nodding off, by all means, please do arrest them. I don't want someone who can't keep their head off of the steering wheel traveling in the same city as me, let alone the same block, and absolutely not next door.
Gtrplayer
June 20, 2007 - 9:02am
#11
Methadone DUI
Hello Gtrplayer, I was absolutely not on the " nod " I was in no way in the appearence of being loaded, it was 6:00 am I had just woken up and went to dose, yes a certain amount is allowed if you have reason to be dosed, to walk or ride a bike but the cop told me that if ANY amount no matter how little was in me while driving a car, I will be arrested and charged with DUI of Methadone, now this is in Calif. it might be different in other states.
June 20, 2007 - 10:51am
#12
methadone
I was on the federal methadone program for less than 2 years which is rare, for most stay on it for many more years. It did help me time and time again but one has to remember that it is so very hard to ween yourself off this narcotic. I did it the hard way and would not advise anyone to do it my way I went from 80 mg daily to 0 mg in less than 6 weeks. Actually I would have no problem with a clinic in my backyard, many probably thinking I am saying this only because I was on this program. In the 2 years I was on it there were a few (very few) verbal arguments never mind out and out fisticuffs.People knew then and probably still know that there are severe penalties for any type of physical contact, and anyone who has gone 48 hours or more without this medicine knows what I am talking about.
June 20, 2007 - 2:23pm
#13
That really sounds
That really sounds draconian! It doesn't make sense to put up even more obsticals to treatment. If you can't drive to the clinic, daily attendance goes from difficult to impossible. Patients taking narcotics for pain are not prohibited from driving, I wonder how they justify it for methadone maintenance?
June 20, 2007 - 2:49pm
#14
DUI on Methadone
I have to admit, in the four+ years I have been on Methadone, this is a fear I have all the time, being stopped and possibly cited for DUI while on Methadone. I am on 180 mg per day, which is a fairly high dose, but I do fine with my driving around town. It's driving long distances that tend to be a problem. Unless I do not take any med at all or possibly very little, I tend to get sleepy when making a long road trip. I normally will take about 10 or 20 mg before leaving and that will hopefully hold me until we reach our destination.
I've been told, in Washington, prescribed drugs are treated the same as non-prescribed drugs or alcohol when it comes to DUI. I think this is probably the case in most states, if not all.
Director
June 20, 2007 - 3:04pm
#15
It sounds like if the
It sounds like if the cop saw you walk out of a methadone clinic and get into your car, he can pull you over and search you (including a drug test) because he has reason to believe you are taking a medication that may inpair judgement and reflexes. If you are weaving all over the road, a cop could pull you over and search you (including a drug test) because he would have reason to believe you were intoxicated. If you are quietly taking your daily narcotic dose in the privacy of your own home and have become tolerant of the side effects so you can drive and work safely, the cop has no reason to pull you over and demand a drug test.
I am not very familier with the problems of methadone maintenance, but I can see where this would create a huge barrier to care, and a disincentive to seek treatment. It is worse than stopping everyone who leaves the bar parking lot and testing them for alcohol!
June 20, 2007 - 3:06pm
#16
I know that police officers
I know that police officers are given a chart to assess intoxication of various substances via pupil size. But even that is odd to me. Dr. Lois, I don't know if you can vouch for this or not, but I have seen many, many people who have very small pupils, even when in a darker setting, who have never taken a single pain pill in their life, let alone be under the influence of them? Is it common for some people to have a normally constricted pupil size?
My question to you, Dr. Lois, is "how accurate can a pupil chart be?".
Gtrplayer
June 20, 2007 - 3:43pm
#17
I don't think pupil size is
I don't think pupil size is very clincially reliable for degree of intoxication. If your pupils are dialated from meds you probably have other more reliable signs of intoxication. It would also depend on what the lighting conditions are and other prescription medications you may be taking. I agree there is a lot of normal variation between different people as well.
If the police are using a chart it is more likely to help them determine what type of drug the person may be using, or whether they are suffering from an unrelated medical condition.
June 20, 2007 - 4:02pm
#18
Pupil size and other effects of Methadone
I've wondered the same thing and when I wrote my previous post, I don't think I was very clear. I take my Methadone each day for a chronic pain condition and my doctor prescribes it to me once a month. In fact, I saw him this morning and he gave me my monthly script.
I guess I'm not too concerned about my driving abilities while on Methadone, but I guess I'm kind of paranoid about getting stopped for a burned out tail light, brake light, etc. and have the officer notice something, whether it be my pupil size or whatever and then give him cause to want a blood test.
I am retired (on SS Disability) and tend to be fairly close to home except for runs to the store or doctor appointment. I really don't worry too much about in city driving, it's more long distance driving and getting the nods. I guess the best thing to do, is to ask my wife to drive, rather than being uncomfortable because I wasn't able to take my meds before leaving on a three hour trip. Then I wouldn't have to worry.
Director
June 20, 2007 - 4:35pm
#19
One rule definitely doesn't
One rule definitely doesn't fit everyone. I get sleepy driving after a big meal. I would hate to get pulled over for "Big Mac" intoxication.
June 20, 2007 - 9:06pm
#20
methadone maintainance
Methadone Clinics are barely recognizeable unless you know its there. The clinics I have seen look like any other medical building. People have such misconceptions about methadone clinics. While I support Methadone for opiate withdrawal I think some of the for-profit clinics out there are more interested in making money and keeping clients on their services , longer than need be. JUST TO MAKE MONEY!
June 20, 2007 - 10:54pm
#21
THANK YOU!!!!
I couldn't have said it better my self!!! you are the first person on this i totally concurr with. sweet. you rock!!!
June 21, 2007 - 6:31am
#22
I know that it can vary from
I know that it can vary from place to place, however, the methadone clinic that i am most familiar with is in a dilapidated ran down part of town. additionally, any time that i have ever driven by there there is a large congregation of homeless people and what i am told by a policeman friend are heroin addicts outside.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
June 26, 2007 - 11:13pm
#23
No offense, but when you
No offense, but when you are in the "diapidated ran down part of town", it doesn' matter what building you are around, you will most likely see homeless people congregating outside. what I don't get is why heroin addict would be congregating outside a methadone clinic?
I'm a social worker, not a medical professional. All comments and thoughts are simply my opinion and experience.
June 27, 2007 - 8:20am
#24
js57gifts, no offense taken. i respect your opinion and insight.
in regards to the question:
"what I don't get is why heroin addict would be congregating outside a methadone clinic?"
is this a serious question or an attempt at humor? assuming that it is a honest question, the answer would be: "because heroin addicts are often treated w/ methadone"... simple enough.
as for the delapitated buildings = homeless people, then yes, you are pretty much correct.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
July 5, 2007 - 1:51am
#25
Dr. Lois re:Methadone Clinics
I'm interested in what you said regarding having a Methadone Clinic in your neighborhood. Why would the type of insurance matter to the quality of individuals using the clinic's services. Your quote "especially if the clinic did not take any insurance plans, especially medicaid plans." sounds to me that you think the quality of a clinic would depend on not accepting insurance plans. Whether or not a clinic attracts urban addicts or suburban addicts an addict is an addict with or without an insurance plan.
July 5, 2007 - 10:35am
#26
2 words radar detector :P
2 words radar detector :P well im kinda a speed freak and my bro has a fast car and we drive to school together we live over 30 miles from the school one way, and we probably at least once a week we break 140 and we never got a ticket, but we did get one for noise disturbance for exaust and subwoofers in the back, and underglow, o ya and my bro test drove his car before he got it and he got pulled over and got a ticket for driving withou license and his car impounded etc. but the ticket only cost 12 dollars! o yeah we got one speeding ticket, but thats because we drove past a state trooper, and unlike lower level cops i guess u can call that, they use a special radar gun called pulse, and it only shoots radar when u drive by, well we live in bfe and we was only one around, we was doing around 70 and the pulse detector got us, and another cop about 20 miles up the road got us, but the second that detect went off my bro ripped on the e brake and we was doing about 90 and we only got a ticket for 63 in a 55 so radar detecters in missouri are legal and pretty effective. we got out of a bunch of ticketes from them, if u get one though, and u get pulled over, and the cop sees it, if u dont hide it, u will get a ticket guarenteed. lol
(edited by TeamPharmer)
hmm i cant use that one guys sig so im not a pharmacist or doc dont listen to me i just have firsthand experience and done alot of research on this stuff. talk to ur docter about it
July 5, 2007 - 12:14pm
#27
To caseyn08
Casey, like the caveman says in the Geiko commercial......WHAT?
July 5, 2007 - 1:05pm
#28
The ability to pay cash for
The ability to pay cash for methadone maintenance would tend to limit clients to people who had well-paying jobs, or whose family had a good income. The neighbors, including myself, would be happier to see late model BMW's in the parking-lot and patients dressed in business attire coming and going. I agree, addiction cuts across all socioeconomic levels, which is why I wouldn't have a problem with a methadone clinic in my neighborhood.
I am applying for a suboxone certificate. Because the demand is so high for doctors who can write for suboxone, from an economic standpoint, taking only cash patients may be the most profitable route to go. It will also tend to make sure there are more BMW's than beaters in the parking-lot which from a marketing point of view will make my office more attractive to other new patients.
Does that sound bad. I drive a 20 year old F-150 myself and our other car is a 10 year old Taurus. I charge $65 for uninsured patients for an office call, don't charge low income seniors the 20% medicare co-pay, take payment plans, and have written off a lot of charges for my regular low-income patients. But this is still my business and not a charity.
The recommendation for suboxone is that most people will need to be on it indefinitely, especially if they have a long history of addiction, unsuccessful prior treatment, history of relapse, and risk factors that increase the chance of addiction and relapse. Even though they are no longer addicted, they are at high risk of relapse. I think the same goes for methadone. That isn't an economic decision, but the standard of care. (This part is really in response to what you said about keeping people on methadone maintenance.)
l
July 5, 2007 - 4:36pm
#29
JS57, the former addicts are
JS57, the former addicts are most likely inside, but I get the question. Non treated addicts might be congregating to see if they can get illicit methadone from the ones in the program, but it isn't very likely. So I don't think the question is a joke and you may find former addicts being treated talking around the place. Just my two sense
July 5, 2007 - 6:16pm
#30
agree 100% about them
agree 100% about them keeping people on way too long and making money hand over fist, couldn't say it better pharm-07!!! Even going to an addictionologist once a month a lot of the times is the same story. All boils down to paper money. These places are making more money than the King of NY himself, and you don't see many non-profit clinics around anymore.
July 9, 2007 - 8:13pm
#31
Cash Paying Clients
I think it's great that you're applying for a suboxone certificate.The area in which I live has only a few certified Dr.'s for suboxone with long waiting lists. I do think that suboxone is a great alternative to methadone for opiate addiction. As for taking cash paying clients it's your business and yeah if you're looking to make a profit than I guess cash only would be the way to go.
In regards to what I said about clinics keeping people on methadone for longer than need be comes from first hand experience. There's no need to have someone on methadone indefinitely or for a long period of time for a short history of addiction. I do believe that some clinics don't mention the words "taper off" to their cash paying clients because that's where they make their money.
July 11, 2007 - 1:26pm
#32
Intervention
I just starting watching a show on A&E called Intervention. What surprises me is the amount of people who are addicted to narcotics(in the strict meaning of the word) go off the same hour, many who have been on methadone, Oxycodones, or other class 2 narcotics without seeming to ask at all about the severe withdrawl symptoms that will develop in the following 24 hours or more. Just a thought
July 11, 2007 - 1:40pm
#33
What do you mean by "go off
What do you mean by "go off the same hour", do you mean go straight from the intervention to rehab? Because usually in situations like these, they will continue and even encourage the person to stay using until they get into a clinical situation where doctors can acess there health and get them on the proper medications for detox. A lot of time they will even have a nurse stay with the person to ensure they dont OD, or to administer medications to people that need them, like alcoholics so they dont have seizures and such. Ive actually seen on that show and other ones, where they will use the "rapid detox" under sedation to help ease the discomfort of the more sever withdrawal symptoms that occur within the first 24-72 hours.
July 12, 2007 - 2:05pm
#34
intervention
Solo, As I understand the show the addicts beleive that they are being filmed as a docu for addicts, (any type) and then find out that it is an intervention. The addicted person admitted that they were in withdrawl mode(in this case narcotics) when the intervention occured. The addiction counseler then made it clear that they were to get on a plane that day to arrive at a facility. I assume that they get the proper help at that particular facility but I may be wrong. I am not a doctor or health professional and any post by me are for discussion purposes only.
August 10, 2007 - 5:17pm
#35
I have been on methadone for
I have been on methadone for almost 5 years, and considering I just turned 26, well thats pretty sad.
I wouldnt want a clinic in my neighborhood ONLY because one of the clinics I used to go to in Tampa Florida was on Nebraska ave. and it was a very bad part of town. I had to take the bus there and back three times a week and for a young girl in that part of town, lets just say I feared for my life a couple of times, and if I ever did want to score drugs, this clinic was the perfect place to do it.
I have been going to my clinic in Ocala Florida for almost the whole time I've been on methadone (I only lived in Tampa a few months) and its truly a nice professional place. You cant tell at either of the clinics I've attended what they were. They looked like doctors offices.
There was a clinic in Tampa that did take insurance and medicad but most people didnt go to it because they wouldnt allow any prescribed drugs to be taken at all or you would be kicked out.
I pay almost $400.00 a month ($13.00 a day) which is nothing compared to what I used to spend in a day on street drugs.
Also I read in a earlier post that you have to be a heroin addict to be a loud in a methadone clinic. This is no loger tru in Florida and most states. I've never even seen heroin. I went there dor a addiction to painkillers and fentanyl. I had no idea how hard it was to get off of methadone though and its much harder to get off of then painkillers.
I can honestly say that although methadone is a pain (ie having to take a hour drive every week to pick up my weeks worth of methadone, the $400 a month, being sick when I cant pay for it, having it stolen off of me ect.)
I also KNOW it has saved my life. I know if I stayed on the path I was on before I started methadone, I would be dead. Actually the only reason I started was because I overdosed, my family found me and I almost dies one night. The methadone clinic sounded like a godsend to me and my family so I started two days later. Thats first day I felt great and didnt even want any other drugs.
Basically if its was cheaper, and easier to get off of (and the liquid cherry stuff didnt taste so badly) it would be perfect for me. I support methadone because I can live a relativley normal life while on it.
Until something better comes along to get me off of methadone, I'll probably be on it awhile longer.
(edited by TeamPharmer)
August 10, 2007 - 9:23pm
#36
At 140 mph I hope you learn
At 140 mph I hope you learn enough in your classes to use was and were in proper context before your short life ends.
And since this site is drug related I am hoping you are not consuming any drugs or alcohol before this selfish and dangerous behavior.
It will be tragic enough when two kids, you and your brother lose your lives, but if it involves a school bus full of kids and some pain pills it will be much worse.
For the families of the little kids with their lives taken at such a young age and every person out there like me that truly suffers from terrible pain..
Slow down, way down and go into car racing if this excites you so much.
August 11, 2007 - 5:27pm
#37
methadone
My wife takes methadone, and it has really helped her alot with her opiate addiction. I tried it for 4 months, but it did nothing for me. This was before I had my car accident, broke my back and both arns, now I have to take Dilaudid.
But they do work (meth clinincs) for alot of people.
KnightMetal
- --- ---
- I am not a doctor, everything I say is my opinion
August 11, 2007 - 9:18pm
#38
that is not correct,
that is not correct, methadone clinics commonly treat people with prescription opiate problems. Also if you are applying for a suboxone license you need to know that it is definately not for indefinate periods of time. Suboxone treatment usually lasts from 2 weeks to 6 months or so. Keeping people hooked on legal alternatives to illegal drugs is just as bad as being a Dope dealer, sorry but that is very unethical.
Check with a licensed MD before you take any suggestions!
August 11, 2007 - 9:31pm
#39
I have had problems with
I have had problems with both methadone "intoxication" and "pizza hut intoxication" I was charged with DUID's in both instances. I wasn't intoxicated either time. I got convicted for driving under the influence of Xanax-even though the court knew I had a prescription for it (this was the methadone stop,since I didn't mention methadone b/c of its bad conotation) but said I take xanax. I appealed and beat the DUID but got a civil charge of refusing to take a blood test and lost my license for a year. The cops also post up outside of the bars where I live waiting to hand out Drunk in Publics and DUI's, it is ridiculous. So be careful if you Done and Drive, esp. if it give you the "nods."(which you shouldn't be driving anyway in this case.)
Check with a licensed MD before you take any suggestions!
August 11, 2007 - 9:39pm
#40
It isn't sad if it keeps you
It isn't sad if it keeps you from the dope. Be glad you found a suitable alternative until your life gets settled and you can deal with the addiction in another way. Something better had come along, and I would seriously consider a switch to Suboxone. This is a much better drug for opiate withdrawal.
Check with a licensed MD before you take any suggestions!
August 11, 2007 - 11:39pm
#41
dones
i went thru a done clinic and i can truly say it saved my life at the time. however i only continued to go there for about 8-9 months. and it was only 7 bucks a day by the way. but after all that i fairly quickly relapsed, prob cause i didnt stay on it long enough, but anywho i still relapsed. i quit cold turkey a couple of times but im sure everyone knows how that goes. now im currently on subloxone and i will go on record as saying it is a miracle drug. methadone gets into your bone marrow which means it stays in your body for a VERY long time after getting off. its harder to quit that heroin. however, suboxone does the same thing as far as taking cravings away and lettin u live a normal life. im only 24 and ivve been thru alot also. but once i found suboxone havent looked back. it dont stick around in your body and its much easier to ween off once your ready.
peace and long live the hippies
certainly not a professional, only personal experience
(edited to remove email address)
August 12, 2007 - 8:44am
#42
May Sound Negative As Well
I am a methadone user myself, and even wrote a Com 101 paper in college a couple years back on the safety and effectivity of needle-exchange and methadone treatment programs, and while I agree that actually both of those are greatly successful when managed properly by people well-trained in this field, I wouldn't want one across the street from an elementary school or anything. In a clinic, a hospital, even if it's independently run but renting space in a larger medical facility, that sounds like a good way to go. Many methadone users are just people with terminal illnesses suffering from excruciating and chronic pain who mean no harn, but there are addicts too who may need to be under the supervision of the appropriate personnel.
*Jason
[n o t h i n g : e v e r y t h i n g : : r e a l i t y]
August 12, 2007 - 7:34pm
#43
quamo wrote:methadone gets
quamo wrote:
methadone gets into your bone marrow which means it stays in your body for a VERY long time after getting off
Methadone does not get into your bone marrow. Methadone, like the "miracle drug" Suboxone both have a very long half life and are both opiates. Both drugs will damage the brains opiate receptor which will result in withdrawal symptoms when either drug is discontinued. By the by, Suboxone actually has a longer half life and will remain in the body longer than methadone.
August 13, 2007 - 4:53am
#44
King is Correct
The first time I was on a methadone clinic I had never touched Heroin, just Oxycontin, which is the same addiction wise as percocet, oxycodone being the main active ingredient, but there are people at my clinic that are there becuase of their addiction to Vicodin(hydrocodone) So, to say that meth clinics are for herion addicts only is completly false.
August 13, 2007 - 5:03am
#45
Outside the clinics
At my clinic and the one I was at 4 years ago and ones I've guess dosed at and others I've been around this isn't going on. But I live in the suburbs of Philly, and at the clinics in the city you can go right outside them any morning and people are selling pills, crack, anything you want, and people comin out selling there bottles of methadone, a local news station just did an undercover report on it... go here if u wanna see http://www.nbc10.com/investigators/index.html It's the main story on the left you can see a picture of it under Investigators, just click on what u wanna see more of. Later.
August 13, 2007 - 10:14am
#46
Class Prejudice & Methadone
A clinic is not going to open up in a residential neighborhood in the middle of a subdivision. They have opened up in city areas that have apartments on the same street. Typically, they are located in areas that are zoned for clinics, so none of us need to worry about a clinic opening next door to us, unless we live in a retail shop (I happen to live in a retail shop with a four bedroom apartment inside of it; live/work space). I am appalled at the amount of prejudice that I experience and hear about when it comes to people seeking methadone treatment for help with their addiction versus people that seek methadone treatment for pain management. These are two completely different uses for the drug, so these clients really shouldn't even be compared with each other. It is unfortunate that we live in a society that is more accepting of a junkie that is using methadone that drives a Mercedes and pays cash or has high end insurance than a junkie that might be on the verge of homelessness and uses Medical to pay for their plan. I personally have experienced this prejudice. I used to drive a Mercedes, made over 6 figures per year and lived in a very wealthy neighborhood. I now use a Medi-Cal card and take public transportation (because I choose to). It's amazing the amount of respect that I used to get just because of a car I drove and because I paid for my doses with a Platinum mastercard. All of the clients standing in line still went to the same source to become the addicts that we became. The thing that I feel I have in common with every other person in that line whether they are black or white, have all of their teeth or not, have good paying jobs or are on government aid... is that we are in treatment. We are in a recovery program. We are attempting to make better of our lives. I almost think there should be more disdain for someone that has money and sunk to that level of despair, but those are my own personal self-depricating issues. Then there's the class prejudice of what type of opiate the person was addicted to... I heard (in disgust) people in my "parents club" (a peer group at the clinic I attend) that were talking down about the people that were JUST pill poppers (these people happened to be heroin users); like the person that was JUST a pill popper wasn't a real addict and didn't qualify to have an opinion about the particular topic we were discussing. I was ashamed for the person that was talking that way, but it's a commonly felt prejudice. Somehow the hard drug user feels that they are more of an ADDICT than the pill popper. They are ALL addicts, all equal, all fighting the same battles... some of them have more complications because of the method which they chose to become addicted, but we're all fighting the same fight as recovering addicts. Then there are the ones that are prejudiced about the method in which the drug is administered. I didn't start using hard drugs until I was in my 30's. I didn't start using heroin until I was in my 30's. I had 10 years sobriety under my belt (from another drug). Just like that I fell down and fell hard - it was almost a two year fall and after about two years of false starts and when I was just about ready to give up hope and administer the last fatal dose of heroin to myself... I went against all of my friends' advice (they thought that methadone was going to just make things worse, that I would end up addicted to two substances and become a homeless bag lady) and went to the methadone clinic. That was back in April 2006. I will never regret making that decision. When people like my father ask me how long I will be on this drug... my typical answer is that they wouldn't be asking me that question if I was taking heart medication or diabetes medication. This is a medication that has saved my life and keeps me healthy. I don't care if I'm on it for the rest of my life if it keeps me from relapsing and from ever ending up on that horrible road I was on. Fortunately, I started out with a hefty sum of cash and assets and never needed to experience some of the horrors that other addicts experience to keep their addiction fed (prostitution, dealing, stealing, etc.) I was jailed for a week because of association, not because of my own possession. Charges were dropped, but it was an experience that I will never forget. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the highest end addict can still experience rock bottom... that's the power of the drug. Once again, I don't care if I end up taking methadone for the rest of my life. It keeps me safe. It prevents me from relapsing. It also helps me with pain management for some pretty awful GI problems that I had before I started down the horrendous road years ago. I don't own the Mercedes, or even a car for that matter (that's a personal choice, not a financial one... well, not necessitated by finances). I don't own a home anymore; instead, I have a five year commercial lease for a business that I am developing - another enterpreneurial endeavor that will be more successful than the business that I had before! I am attending my fourth semester of college and have maintained a 3.8 GPA and getting ready to transfer to UCSF where I will continue my education for a mid-life career change to become a surgeon! I hope this screams out a positive message in support of methadone. I couldn't do these things if all I was doing is trading an addiction from an "illegal' one to a "legal" one. (This is what many people feel is happening with people that trade methadone for heroin). If that's all it were, my life would be continuing to spin radically out of control. It's not just the cost difference, it's the program, it's the medication, the therapy, the peer groups... It's not just another drug. I have not just traded addictions. I am in recovery. I am on a path of wellness and well-being. My daughter is sitting here next to me as I write this letter. She asked what I was writing and I started to describe it to her. She could tell all of you that methadone isn't just another opiate replacement, it has made our lives better.As far as the class distinctions. Have a little more openness and willingness to love in your heart. No clinic will ever open in your precious suburban tract-lifestyle, and noone is asking you to have a former junkie come into your home and share dinner with you. But even grandma can get strung out on Vicodin and Percocets because her back hurts so much that she takes pain meds to alleviate the pain. She can become an addict too. Does that make her a better person than me? Does that make her a better person than the junkie that has smelly clothes, no place to live, few teeth and no cash? Not really. You don't have to hug them, or befriend them, just appreciate that we're all fighting the fight if we're showing up at the clinic for the day.(ONCE AGAIN, THERE'S NO NEED TO ARGUE THE FACT THAT I HAVE SEPARATED OUT THE TWO CATEGORIES OF METHADONE USED FOR PAIN MANAGEMENT AND METHADONE USED FOR ADDICTION RECOVERY)
(edited by TeamPharmer)
August 13, 2007 - 10:46am
#47
Reply to Free? (bornfree)
Bornfree, you are absolutely incorrect. Methadone clinics are not just for heroin users, not in the state of California. Maybe that particular clinic had guidelines that restricted intake of certain patients, I don't know. I'd have to call them and find out what prevented them from accepting a patient that was addicted to opiates. I live in California. I dose at a clinic in Oakland, California. The clinic's mission and values statement is built on primarily an opiate addiction recovery program. That was because of how long they have been in business. Their focus has changed in the last few years to include a broader spectrum of patients that include those that are using methadone for pain management. I started on the program in April 2006 and was a cash pay client at the time. My ex-boyfriend got the free "lotto slot" (they have several 6 month detox for free slots that they give out on as needed basis). I now have my methadone covered by Medi-Cal. The cash price is now $360. It was $320 when I started. I have guest dosed at clinics in this state and in various other states. I have to say, I'm glad I go to the clinic I'm at - each clinic has been very different from the next. Some of them have had "rougher" clientelle and some of them are in "rougher" neighborhoods. What do you expect? It is what it is. I dose on 80 mg of methadone per day. I use the tablets that are dissolved in water by the administering nurse. For my "take homes" they do the same thing (put water on top of the pills). If I take a short vacation, I usually can get clearance from my doctor for extra "take homes" to go on the road with me. As long as my UA's look good (urinary analysis... which I personally have never had a problem with) and I'm up to date on seeing my counselor (also never a problem) I pretty much can get up to a week of take-homes to go with me. If my trip is longer than that, it requires advance contact with another clinic and dosing or picking up more take-homes from the clinic in the vacation spot. Sometimes I end up with liquid or whatever they have on hand. I would say about 20-25% of our patients in the clinic are there for pain management now. I go into the clinic more often than I dose because of the fabulous programs that they offer there. We have acupuncture (I get it twice per week from one of the best acupuncturists I've ever been to - and it's included in my monthly dues - FREE!) I see an awesome therapist once per week for 30 minutes to an hour. He has been a true gem and has helped me with more than just addiction issues. I attend a Parents Club with my 12 year old daughter. This is mostly about parenting issues and addiction, but the topics have really varied and have been very useful. We have recently had some use of land donated to the clinic for the purposes of a co-op garden. So we're starting a garden club where we can plant veggies and herbs, etc. The supervising physician has brought a smoking cessation program on board and many of us have taken advantage of it and stopped smoking. I'm introducing a job club (as a former owner of a recruiting and retention consulting firm) and will be providing job counseling, resume building and revision workshops and job workshops - all biweekly. This year I will also present AIDS Walk to the group and see if we can rally up some support for contribution through various interested patients. Some of the counselors also post community events like free movie in the park nights and such. This is offered by Oakland Parks & Recreation, but the feeling is that we're not just a "dopehead" clinic. If you look down the line in the morning, probably 80% or more are living below the poverty line, probably 50-60% do not have vehicles and take public transportation, probably 75% are on Medi-Cal, some of the people are working the program, some of them are clearly not... they'll leave or be kicked out and come back again more than likely. The current staff is pretty on top of keeping the place "temptation-free" and has a policy that if any transactions or what appear to be transactions are happening within eyesight of the clinic, you will be immediately terminated from the program. That means, don't even give someone a quarter for a cigarette, don't light someone's cigarette, basically don't transact anything on clinic property just to be safe, because it might be misconstrued as something else. I'm glad it's watched that carefully. Dope dealers hang out next to clinics because they know that addicts are going there and they know that addicts can be weak and will give in occasionally. Because of the security we have at the clinic, I think that has been kept to a minimum. I can't say that I have never been approached by some person walking the block and offering kolonopins or percs or whatever might be the going scrip of the day (seems that Seroquel is the new wave of offer). I notify the staff immediately and they respond. If they're patients they won't be there long, if they're just dealers cruising the neighborhood - they'll get a message to move along by security/police. The location of the clinic is East Oakland. I wouldn't live there. I wouldn't go there at night. I travel there carefully and have had to take a taxi home on a couple of occasions because I had my laptop with me and didn't want to be robbed. I've been robbed in front of my own home before though, at gunpoint. I was nowhere near the clinic. That's life.Anyway, I just wanted to say that Methadone isn't just for heroin users and it isn't free to heroin users either. It can be free, but that's a whole other topic.I HAART MY CLINIC! (Coincidentally that's the name of the clinic, HAART, thought I'd throw in the lame pun for giggles)
August 18, 2007 - 3:35pm
#48
there is
a methadone clinic in my neighborhood, just a couple blocks away. I can see it from my front yard, i have never had/or seen an issue with it.
KnightMetal
- I am not an MD
- I know by experience only
- Please do not take advise from anyone, consult YOUR MD 1st
September 2, 2007 - 5:14am
#49
I am a staunch supporter of Suboxone
I will also go on record and say that Suboxone has saved my life. Methadone just scares me because its withdrawal is more difficult than H or oc thus it ends up being a lifelong thing.
In addition, because the clinic was a congregation of users, my friend would often return with oc's or Xanax from people he met there.
Disclaimer: I'm purposely going to be a little long winded, just wanted to share my fantastic experience with some people that might understand.
I have other mental issues, but am a full-time downtown Chicago professional. I didn't know it was that hard to find a doctor, I guess I was just lucky:
I went to: http://www.buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/bwns_locator/index.html
I called the first doctor and was on it in a few days.
Now I do everything with this Dr (in fact she turned out to be the best I've ever had.) It's just a simple trip to the pharmacy to get my 45- 8mg monthly prescription. (Let me tell you, the first time I stared at that bottle for a long time, happier to see it than a bottle of oc 80s.)
Warning: they are NOT cheap. Luckily I have really good insurance and pay a $35 copay for ~$290 monthly supply. Plus she charges in cash for Suboxone patients (wonder why :) the first visit was $250 and $100 a month since. (Sounds like a lot, but MUCH less than my oc addiction.) Plus my insurance is compensating me.
Anyway she told me it's been easier for me than most because I truly in my heart am ready to be done. I was just at a music fest and was offered a few times and didn't think twice about saying no.
So with insurance, a full-time job, having other mental problems, the easier comedown, the confidentiality, the fact that it works better for me than Methadone, why would I even consider anything else other than this miracle drug?
BTW - I've been on it now for three months. When do you think I should start weening off (the doc cryptically answered "it's not up to her,") Also how hard has it been for people? (I'm still scared. oh and I'm on 12 mg a day.)
Thanks for listening...other than the psychiatrist I have not been able to tell my story in full prior to this.
September 2, 2007 - 10:52am
#50
methadone
As a former social worker I have seen the results of methadone to help narcotic addicts. I am in favor of this treatment and it has long been a contraversal subject, of course every subject as this one has it's pro's and con's Methadone maintanence programs IMO helps the patients deal with possible illegal activities they might have been a party to and to hold down steady jobs. Many others would disagree with me claiming Methadone only trades one addiction to another, which of course is true. I myself lived only 3 blocks from a clinic around 20 years ago and saw no increase in crime in the area, but that is not to say they were not occuring. I did find out that some methadone patients were using other illicit drugs, mostly benzo's. That is my 2 cents worth
There's no way to answer this without sounding negative, but I'll post a response anyhow.
While I do think that methadone maintenance is better for an addict than continually seeking out illicit drugs, I'm not so sure I would want one in my neighborhood.
I wouldn't mind if they put up a methadone clinic somewhere in my town, but as for having it in my subdivision, I'd have to say no. They could put it downtown, next to the courthouse or something like that, or better yet, put it next to the police station. I'm all for people getting clean, I'm just not volunteering my back yard as a place for people to try to get clean.
Gtrplayer