November 27, 2005 - 2:24pm
I am somewhat curious about Percocet brand name oxycodone/APAP and Endocet generic percocet. Are they made by the same manufacturer? I have been rx'd 5/325, 7.5/500 and 10/650 strength Percocet tablets. When filled at my pharmacy, they were dispensed as Endocet in the same strengths. When I filled my last Rx, they were out of generic and i was dispensed brand name Percocet. On the label, i had the same manfacturer listed as Endo Pharm. Also, the Percocet pills, with the exception of the 5/325 were the same shape color, and size, had the same score marks or beveled edges and the same 7.5 or 10 imprinted in the same manner as the generic endocet pills. The only difference is insteadof Percocet they say E796 or E797 and the 5/325mg strength is the same size and has the same score and bevel marks as the brand 5/325 only it is white instead of blue and has Endo 602 imprinted instead of Percocet 5.
Are these generics the exact same thing as the brand name, and if so, why is the brand so much more expensive if it produced by the same manufacturer in the same manner?
Thanks
JeckPDX
December 12, 2005 - 12:26am
#2
Percocet vs Endocet
I have been taking oxycodone for more than 2 years. Last week my pharmacy was out of oxycodone and filled my perscription with Endocet. From the very start I did not feel like I was getting the same pain relief. I ended up sleeping at least 6 extra hours each day. By the end of the week I was in severe pain and then proceeded to get flu like symptoms. Today is the first day I have felt a bit better. I spoke to my physician last week in the midst of the turmoil and he told me to tell the pharmacist they had to fill my perscription with oxycodone and not endocet. In my particular case, Endocet is definitely not the same strength as oxycodone.
I wanted to write this because I am sure this has to have happened to others in the past. Let me know and Good Luck to all.
December 12, 2005 - 12:40am
#3
Endocet IS Oxycodone!!!
Endocet IS Oxycodone!!!
Endocet is a brand name, with Oxycodone being the active pain killing opiate. Endocet is available in many of the same strengths as percocet but with less APAP (tylenol).
The only real difference is the manufacturer.
March 28, 2006 - 7:37pm
#4
Endocet vs. Oxycodone
I've recently kicked a long long bad habit with pain medication because of an injury. I do not have an official degree in pharmacutecals nor am I a doctor, but I do have great interest in pharmacutecals and much experience.
Oxycodone is generic for endocet, percocet, and oxycontin.
The reason you may feel different is because it is all in your head, and you may be developing a tolerance. But there is no difference in the two.
March 29, 2006 - 6:47pm
#5
w/d
the symptoms you described as being flu like sounds like w/d symptoms to me. In no expert but from what I understand that appears to be the case. Hope you resolved your issue.
April 28, 2006 - 11:30pm
#6
Endocet vs. Percocet
Sorry, but you are wrong. There are differences with generic brands. I also take Percocet for chronic pain. When my pharmacy switched to Endocet instead of the Watson brand I was used to taking, it not only did not work as well, but I also had an increase in side effects. I had to talk with my doctor AND pharmacist to figure out the problem. (had no thoughts at the time that it had ANYTHING to do with the med change). Turns out my pharmacist and doc had both heard of some people getting better relief with one generic brand versus another. I belong to a group for chronic pain and many members have experienced this as well.
April 29, 2006 - 2:34am
#7
Variance
I found this article awhile back that might help shed some light on this topic.
It discusses the "20% variance" allowed in the bioequivalence of generic drugs, that many consumers are unaware of.
The first part of the article pertains to the regulatory aspects of the generic approval process and explains allowable differences. With the second half titled: "Examples from the world of consumer experience" dealing with individual cases, much like those expressed in this thread and others.
It is an interesting article and worth the read.
April 29, 2006 - 2:52am
#8
WRONG....
ok im not going to get into the other debate about certain generics beind better than others as IMO, its totally placebo/users body chemistry or something along those lines...generics follow VERY strict regulations and there is no way one generic could be significantly different/stronger/whatever than another generic or even the name brand...atleast when its taken as prescribed. im not saying its total BS or that you guys are liars, im just saying its not the actual pill/company or anything, its YOUR body/opinion/mind so dont assume you're right or that generics x*#& or something.
ANYWAYS, about the endocet vs. percocet thing:
BOTH forms of this oxycodone/apap combination drug are made by ENDO Pharms....there is NO difference except for the fact that the imprints differ and some of the strengths and oxy/apap ratios are different. However, this is NOT the reason why the same manufacturer produces both a name brand and a generic version. They also make a generic version in an attempt to help bring back revenue that is lost once the patent runs out on the original name brand drug and many other rival companies begin to produce generics. Instead of losing basically ALL their sales due to most people getting generics over a name brand once one is available, the pharm company(ENDO in this case w/percocet) will also put out a generic version of their own product in order to compete with the other generic manufactures...sometimes the first generic to come out is made by the name brand company which is what happened with ENDO; Percocet and then came ENDOCET.
pretty smart eh?
BTW, this is STRICTLY my opinion, but i have found NO real difference between the brand name percocet 10/325, the ENDOCET 10/325, or the watson 10/325....in fact, if anything i like the generics better....they're cheaper 
April 29, 2006 - 3:03am
#9
OH, i didnt see the post
OH, i didnt see the post directly above mine that i just posted.
that site is wrong, i am sorry.
call up the FDA and ask about generic regulations. you ARE WRONG about the 20% thing, but im not trying to prove you wrong or anything i just dont want you to mislead people into thinking that kinda stuff is true....maybe in other countries, but not in the USA. i think all drugs(generics included) follow the same strict and stringent guidlines....they even have to absorb similiarly, last the same amount of time, reach the same peak plasma levels, etc, etc, etc....i could go on and on, but i'd rather the people who disagree do some research and find out the truth on their own.
AGAIN, i am NOT saying one brand of medicine cant work better than another FOR YOU as an INDIVIDUAL, but its strictly your body chemistry, mind, etc.....because belive it or not, against everything i just said above lol, i find the Mallinckrodt brand of hydrocodone/apap products to be inferior in MANY aspects to nearly every other brand i have tried. there is no reason or rhyme behind this, it is just my personal preference and past experiences that give me this opnion.
but please understand that the guy above me is incorrect about how different generics can be.....any difference is either incorrect storage/transport of the medication OR your individual body/preferences.
hope this helps
-ktx49
April 29, 2006 - 8:20am
#10
Bioequivalence
This is taken from Wikipedia
"Bioequivalence is a term in pharmacokinetics used to assess the expected in vivo
biological equivalence of two proprietary preparations of a drug. If
two products are said to be bioequivalent it means that they would be
expected to be, for all intents and purposes, the same."
The "Regulatory Definition" for the United States is listed as:
"The FDA considers two products bioequivalent if the 90% CI of the relative mean Cmax, AUC(0-t) and AUC(0-∞) of the test (e.g. generic formulation) to reference (e.g. innovator brand formulation) should be within 80.00% to 125.00% in the fasting state. Although there are a few exceptions, generally a bioequivalent comparison of Test to Reference formulations also requires administration after an appropriate meal at a specified time before taking the drug, a so-called "fed" or "food-effect" study. A food-effect study requires the same statistical evaluation as the fasting study, described above."
The 20% thing doesn't seem so far off now. I guess I won't have to call the FDA.
May 9, 2006 - 9:45pm
#11
requip
Being the original poster of the thread being discussed above, I feel it is time for me to comment on the many reaponses this post has generated. First off, Persoset and Endoset are the EXACT smae thing. As noted above, with the expeption of imprint changes, the pills are identical to one aonther with the Percocet name being replaced on the tablet by E 7...
As far as generics being better of worse, I also find Mallkinkrodt hydrocodone and oxycodone gereic equivalents to be inferior however it is probably just my body. I also find Endocet superior to other oxycodone generic available. Could this be because is is manufactured by the same company that manufactured the original Percocet? REmains to be seen. I apprecate all the well thought out responses except fo whoever claims that endocet was inferior to percocet and they had w/d syptoms because of it. I find this hard to beleive as they are both the same drug made by the same company, maybe it was something different you experienced?
PDX
May 10, 2006 - 10:52am
#12
makes for good reading!i
makes for good reading!
i always wondered where endocet came from. its percocet though, i got it at the pharmacy the other day and they told me its percocet.
May 11, 2006 - 1:32am
#13
Perocet Vs Endocet
hi folks ive been taking the yellow endos now for 2 months & i like them better than the others my rx is for Perocet 10/325 but my ins reqiures me to use a gen. instead of the brand except ordered by my dr. so for 7 months i took the white ones by watson & then my druggest filld my rx with the endocet they are very effective .seems like i dont get the cottonmouth as bad with the Endocet as with the watsons
May 13, 2006 - 3:54pm
#14
watson 10/325 percocets
I also find the watson brand oyxcodone 10/325 genrics to have more side efects than the endocet as well. I find an increase in nausea and also increased itching. Not sure why, but I too prefer the Endo's
PDX
September 16, 2006 - 10:23pm
#15
percocet, endocet, and oxycodone are the same
hey im a pharmacy tech and oxycodone is the active drug in percocet and oxycontin . endocet is just a generic version of percocet. they have the EXACT SAME active ingredient! generic manufacters, by law, cannot change the drug make-up, potency, or consitency. the only reason generics are cheaper is b/c after a certain amount of time (depending on length of patent) a drug company's patent expires and gives other drug companies free reign to reproduce the drug. the only diffrence is the chemical structure is the fillers (tylenol, ibuprofen, coatings, etc). so if u feel that the drug isn;t assisting in pain as well as teh brand, its ALL IN YOUR HEAD. i see cases like this every day; as soon as a patient sees the word GENERIC they get create a stigma and automatically assume that its off a lesser quality and therefore makes them PSYCHOLGICALLY feel like their pain isnt being sufficinetly treated. this is comparible to the placebo effect: drs give pts a drug and say its an ssri for their depression, in reality its just a sugar pill. they give it to the pts for a 2 month span; whne pts are interviewed 85% claim to be feeling better. just b/c they are told its an antidepressant, their brain thinks "hey i just took an ssri, im gonna feel better in a few weeks."
September 17, 2006 - 9:05am
#16
whoa
That may be true for alot of depressed people , but try telling that to someone that has chronic pain.
Danielle Nelson
September 17, 2006 - 12:37pm
#17
i agree.there has been
i agree.
there has been plenty of double blinds performed w/ placebos on subjects that suffered worse conditions that contradict that.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
September 17, 2006 - 11:46pm
#18
ALL IN YOUR HEAD?
1ST OFF USING AN EXAMPLE OF SSRI vs. A SUGAR PILL-LET ME JUST SAY THIS MY NEUROPYCHIATRIST, HAS ME ON PROZAC.FOR TEN YEARS-WHEN THE GENERICS CAME OUT & THEY HAD THE CHANCE FOR PATIENT FEEDBACK, MY TRUSTED DOCTOR HAS RECIEVED MANY COMPLAINTS IN REFERANCE TO ALL THE GENERICS OF PROZAC WITH THE EXCEPTION OF DISTA (WHICH IS A SISTER CO. OF LILLY, THE ORIGINAL MAKERS). I TOLD HIM A LONG TIME AGO I FELT I WAS SPINNING MY TIRES AS WELL AS NOT BEING ABLE TO KEEP DEPRESSION BOUTS AT BAY. HE ASKED ME IF I WAS GETTING THE GENERIC- YES I WAS, SO HE IMMEDIATELY CHANGE ME OVER TO THE NAME BRAND. I HAVE HEARD SOME EXTREMELY UNFORTUNATE CIRCUMSTANCES OF PEOPLE I KNOW THAT STILL HAVE SEVERE DEPRESSION & CAN'T SEEM TO GET A HOLD ON IT.THEIR INS. IS NOT CONDUSIVE TO NAME BRANDS AND THEY CAN'T AFFORD THE $$$$$.THESE ARE WELL ADJUSTED PEOPLE WHO WORK HARD AT BEATING THE DEPRESSION.A CASE I HEARD OF WHICH IS TERRIBLY HORRIFIC, IS OF A MAN WHO WAS SUNK IN DEPRESSION (TAKING THE GENERIC PROZAC)JUST FELL PREY TO THIS MONSTER, THE ILLNESS TOOK HIS LIFE FOR HE GOT SO BAD, HE HUNG HIMSELF. THIS WAS A FRIEND OF MINE- who found his lost friend) HIS ROOMATE & BEST FRIEND FOR OVER 30 YEARS.-AS FOR PAIN GENERICS THERE ARE DIFFERANCES MY DEAR PHARMACIST, YOU ARE NOT IN ANY POSITION IN ALL HONESTY TO PASS IT ON AS TO BEING IN ONE'S HEAD -YEAH I KNOW YOU SEE THIS EVERYDAY. DO YOU PHYSICALLY EXPERIANCE DEBILATING PAIN? HAVE A CHRONIC IRREVERSABLE ILLNESS, THAT CAN NOT BE SURGICALLY CORRECTED?I DO. EVERY PERSON IS JUST THAT A PERSON ,UNIQUE, AS THEIR OWN FINGERPRINTS.BODY AND BRAIN CHEMISTRY ARE HUGE FACTORS. A PERSON WHO KNOWS REAL PAIN AS I AM SURE MANY OF US ON THIS SITE,KNOWS THE TIMING, REACTION, AND PROBLEMS DIFFERENT PAIN MEDS OVER LONG TERM USE CAN CREATE-TOLERANCE LEVELS, MANY THINGS.I AM TAKING MALLINKRODT 10/325'S I KNOW IT IS NOT THAT GOOD OF A GENERIC, I HAVE TRIED WATSON-NORCO THAT GAVE ME DRY HEAVES & I GUESS THAT WAS ALL IN MY HEAD AS WELL. I KNOW I NEED TO DISCUSS THIS WITH MY DR.A PHYSIATRIST, HARVARD & JOHN HOPKINS & CLEVELAND CLINIC- AND A FOUNDER OF CHICAGO INSTITUTE OF NEUROSURGERY & NEUROSCIENCE.AND AN AUTHOR OF SOME EXCELLENT BOOKS.FACING PAIN /FINDING HOPE.I AM BLESSED HE IS CARING FOR ME.THERE ARE DIFFERANCES IN GENERICS /NAME BRANDS.IT IS NOT IN MY HEAD-NOR DO I THINK OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THIS WONDERFUL, INFORMATIVE SITE. I HAVE LEARNED MUCH AND APPRECIATE ALL COMMENTS EVEN YOURS.WE ALL HAVE OUR OPINIONS -I CAN ONLY SHARE MY EXPERIANCE, STRENGTH AND HOPE. THANKS
September 18, 2006 - 10:52am
#19
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but
I agree with you. I have had scripts from both Tyco-Mallinckrodt, and Watson. In my opinioin, the Mallinckrodts were terrible, and far less effective. I know that we are not the only people who have noticed this, there is a thread about generic percocet somewhere in this site, and there have been surprisingly few responses. I guess this thread is a cover all for that question. I do not know of the generic anti-depressants. I was diagnosed incorrectly as being depressed until they found out it was just a touch of panic disorder. Now, I can say that all of the Xanax XR generics have been quite comparable. I have had the Mylan and Apotex versions, and have been pleasantly surprised. I feel for you, hang in there!!
gtr
September 18, 2006 - 2:01pm
#20
replies
As the original poster of this thread, I find a few interesting responses. Yes its true that all generics must meet similar guidelines but there is different filler material that is used that may be what causes different reactions. As far as hydro/apap 10/325 tablets go, kind of like with Percocet and endocet, watson makes both the brand name (Norco [Norco 529]) and a generic (watson 853) that look almost identical except for the imprints. I have never tried tyco-mallinkrodt 10/325's but I know I was unimpressed with their 10/500s. I have tried qualitest and they feel just as effective as the watson-Norco variety. I also know that the majority of generics for benzodiazepines are just as effective as the brand except for maybe xanax which is a newer one and I've heard the brand name on that is way more potent. Just some thoughts. Wow, this turned into a popular thread after getting few responses for a relatively long time.
Take care all
JeckPDX
September 18, 2006 - 2:09pm
#21
ALL IN YOUR HEAD?
THANK YOU!!!!!!!GTR, WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN THE SITUATION OF CHRONIC PAIN,I THINK IN A VERY PERSONAL WAY WE KNOW WHAT WORKS & WHAT DOESN'T WORK AS IT SHOULD. IN A SENSE WE INSTINCTIVELY CAN MAKE THIS ACUTE OBSERVATION OUT SIDE OF "OUR HEADS" THE CNS DOES THAT FOR US.WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR RESPECTABLE RELIEVE, & THE WE OUR LIKE OUR OWN BAROMETERS KNOWING WHETHER IT IS A GENERIC OR NOT -ONLY BY USING IT.AND SEEING IF THERE IS SUFFICIENT RELEIF.I KNOW WHEN I WAS TAKING THE ABBOT VICODIN 5/500'S 2 OF THOSE WHERE FAR MORE SUPERIOR TO THIS MALLINKRODT (INFERIOR IN MY EXPERIANCE, AS WELL AS WATSON & EVEN QUALITEST.) SO I WOULD BE ANXIOUS TO TRY THE 10/650 ABBOT PRODUCT.PERHAPS THIS WOULD BE A WELCOMED ANSWER.LONGEVITY WISE ,ABSORBTION RATE,& THE TIME IT REALLY LASTS.I KNOW I WILL NEVER BE PAIN FREE-THAT IS NOT REALISTIC,BUT IT DOES NEED TO BE MANAGED PROPERLY SO I CAN DO PHYSICAL THERAPY AND CHORES.I AM GLAD YOU ARE GETTING RELEIF FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL MALADY. THANKS
December 4, 2006 - 6:37pm
#22
try your own blind test
if you think you are seeing a difference between two brands of the same type of medication, try your own _blind_ test to see if it's real or placebo: have your wife/husband/girl/boyfriend blindfold you and give you one brand of pill for 5 days, and then the other for the next 5 days (and not tell you which one of course). Then see if you can tell which one was which. Repeat for 5 or 6 rounds to ensure you don't just get lucky. Post the results (be fair & scientific). It will be interesting!
December 4, 2006 - 7:39pm
#23
Great Idea!!
Quote:
try your own _blind_ test to see if it's real or placebo: have your wife/husband/girl/boyfriend blindfold you and give you one brand of pill for 5 days, and then the other for the next 5 days (and not tell you which one of course). Then see if you can tell which one was which.
This is a great idea and is a very objective way to determine if one can really tell the difference between brand and generic!
Thanks jalbert10NJ.
I'm not a pharmacist or a medical doctor. This message is not medical advice nor is it an offer to provide medical advice. All drug identifications should be validated by a licensed MD or pharmacist.
December 4, 2006 - 9:37pm
#24
Let me be very honest when I
Let me be very honest when I tell you that in my opinion and we all know what those are worth that Endocet is much , much more friendly for a better word over a period of time than the notorious Mallinckrodt.
I have tried both and when I am short on my pain medication due to a later doctors appointment or what have you , Endocet is much more friendly than Mallinckrodt. I enjoyed the Mallinckrodt , however they are the devil in disguise 'so to speak'.
Coming down from Endocet or even a reduce in dosage is not near as bad than those white notorious oblong pills.
March 17, 2009 - 7:18pm
#25
20% Accuracy for Bioequivalent drugs
My pharmacy pastes a label on 100 count bottles from the manufacture. After removing the pharmacy label the following is reveled on the manufacture’s (Mallinckrodt) label beneath usual dosage:
*10 mg Oxycodone HCI is equivalent to 8.9637 mg Oxycodone.
The following is From FDA.org
http://www.fda.gov/CDER/GUIDANCE/4252fnl.htm
Guidance for indistry
Bioanalytical medthod Validation
IV. METOD DEVELOPMENT: CHEMICAL ASSY
B. Accuracy, Precision, and Recovery
The accuracy of an analytical method describes the closeness of mean test results obtained by the method to the true value (concentration) of the analyte. Accuracy is determined by replicate analysis of samples containing known amounts of the analyte. Accuracy should be measured using a minimum of five determinations per concentration. A minimum of three concentrations in the range of expected concentrations is recommended. The mean value should be within 15% of the actual value except at LLOQ, where it should not deviate by more than 20%. The deviation of the mean from the true value serves as the measure of accuracy..”
March 17, 2009 - 7:26pm
#26
10mg Oxycodone HCL equaling
10mg Oxycodone HCL equaling 8.9367 Oxycodone Base has nothing to do with the bioequivalency. Pharmaceuticals are often converted to the HCL salt because it is easier for the body to absorb, however you sometimes need a little more of the chemical to equal an equiv. amount of the Basic chemical.
April 3, 2009 - 6:35pm
#27
Hello
I would like to thank everybody for giving the info I was looking for, Iv'e been taking percocet malinkroft for about 2 years, and two days ago I was
switched to endocet I think the percocet was better than the endocet and what I say goes, lol just kidding no so far i'm getting a little light headed
like you get when your going through w/d but nothing noticeable, I call them brain waves when your brain kinda goes woosh for just a second.
April 8, 2009 - 3:27am
#28
solo5010
Good point there. The HCL is a complex salt and the body absorbs it better than some of the older forms "sulfate" for example like in ms contin does not break down as well and as a result more of the narcotics are needed than they would be with a more complex salt like HCL " (H)ydro(C)(L)oride This is the most educated and accurate post I have seen from this site.
April 8, 2009 - 3:33am
#29
20% differentiates
If you would be speaking on the all to infamous (M) I would consider your statement as a valid hypothesis.
April 10, 2009 - 5:46pm
#30
There is a difference
Since the VA pharmacey switched to Endocet I get the jitters, nervousness, contstapation is far worse then before even with medication to help the constipation. The Endocet doesn't last as long and I just don't like how I feel. I'm one of the people with the chronic back/leg pain for over 6 years now, and I'm thankfull for the medications so I can hold down a job and support myself instead of being on disability like I was for 3 years. I've been told that the Generics use different fillers and that could have an effect on different people.
April 13, 2009 - 9:25am
#31
Endocet vs. Percocet
To say that "it's all in your head" because I can feel the difference between Endocet and Percocet is arrogant. I've been on Percocet for pain managment and have had no side effects whatsoever and have even decreased my dosage. It wasn't until my pharmacist gave me Endocet that I noticed the difference. I've been extremely dizzy ever since I've started it and I never had that side effect w/Percocet. I'm going to have a discussion w/both him and my doctor about this. There are too many people like me who feel that there is a difference besides the names and we've grown weary of being patted on the head as though we're little children who should just shut up and take their medicine like good little boys and girls.
April 17, 2009 - 5:03am
#32
Endocet
I usually take 10/325 Norco or Loracet 10/625 for my chronic pain but had a really bad abcess and went to a dentist who NEVER give out pain meds and he put me on the Endocet 10/325 and when I filled them, my pharmacist told me one equals two of my norco of the same strength, is this true? Also was given oxycodone 30 mg when I dislocated my knee and those ones were for sure stronger than my norco but the endocet don't seem to be two to one. Is this true or same pain relief in both the 10 endo and norco? Thanks for the help, Alyssa
April 17, 2009 - 9:34am
#33
Mallinckrodt versus Watson
Make no mistake...the Mallinckrodt product is horrible,.. i thought it was just me. the reason i am at this site was a search for wth is wrong with this medication. I have been taking the generic 10/325 for some time, in careful dosage, for a chronic irrepairable rotator cuff tear. When my pharmacy switched to the Mallenckrodt product i noticed an imediate diff, same with endocet, neither product is nearly as effective as a 10/325 Watson.
This is 'not in my head'!...i noticed on the Malleninckrodt container and '*' (asterik) next to the dosage..when i peeled back the pharmacy's dosing label to read what the asterick stood for its said 'product contains 8.9637 mg oxycodone'...not the 10mg oxycodone HCL that i am suppose to receive. It does say they are 'equivalent', but i assure you they are not. I am going to let my doctor know and only fill at a pharmacy that carries a Watson generic.
You can debate this issue all you want, but i know the Mallinckrodt product to be inferior. I also found the endocet inferior to Watson @ pain control. Exact same dosage! I like many, was just going to chalk it up to my body getting use to the medication. There is some truth to that, but i have never increased my dose so i know there is something very diff between the effectiveness of these diff products.
April 17, 2009 - 11:03am
#34
your 8.9637mg of oxycodone is
your 8.9637mg of oxycodone is actual oxycodone in its base form, which is equal to 10mg of the HCL salt.
April 17, 2009 - 11:30am
#35
hydro to oxy
One Endocet 10/325 is not equal to two Norco 10/325 or two Lorcet 10/650. 10mg of oxycodone hclEndocet) is approximately equal to 15mg hydrocodone bitartrate(Norco). Others can back me up on this. There is an opiate conversion chart on this site. Try using the search box to find it. That will explain it all.
April 17, 2009 - 3:13pm
#36
20% Rule is Absolutely correct
I am a pharmacist, and the person who posted that generics are allowed a 20% difference to the brand concentration is correct. Generic companies have to take the brank drug concentration, say 5 milligrams as an example, and have their product be within 95-115% for it to be acceptable. Therefore, a drug could theoretically have an extra 15% of the active ingredient compared to the brand. It true, I know a great deal about the manufacturing process seeing as how I spent an internship with Merck in NJ and I know the generic product laws.
April 17, 2009 - 9:44pm
#37
oxycodone VS endocet
I have had very severe disabilities with chronic pain for several years. I have mainly coped by utilizing constant physical/mental techniques to increase tolerance levels for helping to manage pain as much as possible, but also to offset potential drug treatment problems that inevitably & usually contribute to drug dependency, addiction, & subsequent resistence. Therefore, I try to engage in as much physical activity without any meds (& challenge my limits constantly) until exhausted, then I even try resting & relaxation methods also, until seeking drugs for relief. At this point, I will try Acetaminophene first, before resorting to my prescription - if at all - so that I can finally get the maximum effect when needed. Therefore, I have become very expert at mentally blocking pain and have developed extremely high levels of physical tolerance. SO...when I do indulge in medicational aid, I am acutely aware of any effects or differences if using this kind of treatment. I have used both brand-name & generic prescriptions for MANY years without ever noticing any significant differences between either before, so I have not had any preconceived nor erroneous preference with the prescriptions dispensed to me until now. I had been receiving oxycodone for an extended time with acceptable results but was then unknowingly switched to endocet. I immediately noticed something was wrong & I was NOT getting the same pain relief as before when using this to help control my pain. The pills looked basically similar, so I phoned the pharmacy. They said they had run out of my usual oxycodone, so the endocet was then substituted because both medications were percoset and essentially the same - just different names (brands). Therefore, I tried both meds again separately to compare and see if there was some other contributing factor or reasonable explanation for this seemingly improbable outcome, but with the same unfavorable results, however, as there was no doubt that the oxycodone was unquestionably more effective than the endocet when used to successfully contribute to my pain management program. I was skeptical of this outcome myself, yet I have no logical answer to explain or back up this fact, I only know this was not an "imagined" nor an isolated incident, but when tested, the comparisons did NOT provide the same remedial qualities nor produce the same results even though they were purported to be identical pharmcutical products. If I am forced to resort to use them, I do not care what the drugs are named nor who makes them, I only care what works- I hate giving in and having to ever use ANY of them as it is!!!
April 17, 2009 - 10:41pm
#38
agree
I totaly agree.. Vallwinner your wrong sorry to tell you but endocet is a generic manufacturer for the prescription drug oxycodone/apap (percocet) name brand.. there is no difference exept the manufacterer and imprint as stated above.. So many people have this so mixed up because of what they think or have heard on the "street" but do some research we have plenty of it to back these statments up on this site.. Get your facts right before you go posting them on these forums.. I dont even take oxycodone I am a chronic pain patient and take hydrocodone but still know all of the facts about most opiates.. we have had these same forums on hydrocodone too.
VICODIN
-5/500
-7.5/750 ES
-10/660 HP
LORTAB
-7.5/500
-10/500
LORCET
-7.5/650
-10/650
NORCO
-5/325
-7.5/325
-10/325
Oxycodone is similar with brand names and generics with the combonations of apap (acetomenophen) (tylenol) but a little different with different little names that don't really mean anything but orgonization by different companies but all consist of the same chemical compound oxycodone.
June 21, 2009 - 9:17pm
#39
NJRx242
There can be a 20% + or - on the active ingredient ??? I always thought the active ingredient had to be right but the inactive could be off by 20%.
June 18, 2009 - 2:56pm
#40
Percocet vs. Endocet
Hello,
I am a Nursing student on my way to getting my masters. The reasoning behind a stronger reaction to one medication after taking another is very simple. Your body gets adjusted to taking a medication, after that the body begins to break down the medication faster and faster. This results in the medication becoming less effective. When a med. is switched to a generic brand, yes the same active ingredients are the same, but other ingredients vary or are added. This is why when someone is switched to a generic it FEELS STRONGER/MORE POTIENT, because now the body is unfamiliar with the other chemicals that form the pill. This makes the body take longer to break it down and is the reason why a new generic medication feels more effective. It should feel similar to the first time a person had taken the regular medication before it became prolonged usage. To answer the question, it is not that a generic form is stronger, but the generic actually feels like it does give a stronger effect than the medication your body had become adjusted to.
June 18, 2009 - 3:37pm
#41
I and others have also
I and others have also completed our nursing education (not sure why that matters) but, if this is your theory, or what they are teaching now (it's been many years since I was a student and they change things year to year LOL), than can you please explain why more times than not, the patient will have the opposite effect?
You see with your theory, the generic would always be felt as being stronger, when changing from brand to generic, or changing from one generic to another unless the exact inert ingredients were used in both pills. I am sure most chronic pain paitents on this site will agree with me on this (regardless of education or chosen profession) but 9 times out of 10, the pill is either equo potent or less potent. Unless you are switching from a known substandard med to a better quality one. The formula allowed for generics is understood as well as inert ingredients and yet what you are describing goes totally against what the usual reaction is to a med change that is strictly a brand change without change in dose.
So, can you please let us know how you would explain the more common , opposite reaction that usually happens. I am very interested in hearing your theory.
June 18, 2009 - 3:43pm
#42
i never
got no paperwork on nothin but i know someone is a little confused today
June 18, 2009 - 4:13pm
#43
Did I mis understand what they were saying?
Maybe I mis understood what the poster was saying, but I re read it about 5 times and it kept registering the same. I do have my days where I'm a penny or two short of a nickle so it's possible. If I mis understood and was out of line, please let me know and I will retract my post. I would hate to be the cause of any issues, I was just stating what the usual clinical response was, opposed to what I understood the posters theory to be.
What the poster is describing is tolerence which we all understand, but as I was taught, the only way to combat tolerence is for the MD to raise the dose, or to take a "med break" and start over, not take a generic and have it be a starting over experience. Never have I been taught or even heard of what they are stating as being common or truth, but usually the opposite. Again, if I am out of line, let me know, I am very thick skinned, oh wait that's just fat not skin LOL!
June 18, 2009 - 4:29pm
#44
i agree
with your post a mom
June 19, 2009 - 9:21am
#45
I Thought so, just making
I Thought so, just making sure I wasn't over medicated or something. LOL
July 11, 2009 - 6:53pm
#46
Endocet vs. Percocet
I feel vindicated. I've said to my wife in the past that pills from Mallkinkrodt were inferior only to be told (in the same tone you would use when explaining something to someone who is feebleminded for the eighteenth time) that generics are the same as thier name brand counterparts and that it was psychosomatic. Psychosoma-this, dear.
August 28, 2009 - 9:48pm
#47
I know we have beat this
I know we have beat this subject to DEATH!!! But here I go. I have been on percs 10/325 since 3/09. I have tried many differents makes. My pharmacy has something different every few months. I have been on the Mylan percs for a few months. I thought they worked very good. This month they had Mallys. I get no pain relief with the Mallys at all. I know many factors can influence the relief I get from the meds. I called my pharmacy and they will order me Mylans. I am just stunned by the Mallys. I have taken Mallys in the 15 mg oxycodone for years and they are good. It has nothing to do with smell and taste because I haven't been able to smell for a year and I can taste very little. I know people who have never experienced this will think its all in the head. But it is not. I will get down off the soap box now. Take care, htmom
My post was prompted by another post about OC. I thought I would put my two cents on the proper thread.
August 29, 2009 - 1:02pm
#48
This is a very interesting
This is a very interesting thread. I love reading all of these opinions. Its never made any sense to me, but it obviously true, with generic vs brand or one generic vs another generic that there are differences. I always thought my parents were nuts when they said that Vicodin helps but Lortab doesn't and makes them sick. I argued and argued that they are the same medication! there is no difference. But then I tried Vicodin (I usually use Lortab) and had the opposite effect. I didn't help me at all. Makes no sense but it is true. Patients tell me that all the time, The latest that I hear often is the difference between Topamax generic and brand. Pretty much everyone prefers the brand. Very interesting.
August 29, 2009 - 5:02pm
#49
Im kinda glad this post was
Im kinda glad this post was brought back up it gave me a chance to read NJRx's comment about medications being allowed to be 20% different in active ingredient content. It surprised me for someone who claims to be a pharamcist would actually post something so inaccurate. The "20% thing" that people talk about and are misinformed about is called the 90% confidence interval. This also by the way has nothing to do with the inactive ingredients being allowed to be 20% different. The 20% confidence interval has to do with things such as CMax, TMax, AUC and MRT. Which are things like how long it takes for the medication to reach a certain blood concentration, the concentration that is reached and how long that concentration is maintained. In order to be considered bioequivalent all these measurements have to be within 80%-125% of the brand reference medication to get a rating of AA,AB or Bioequivalent. If a medication is ever rated B followed by another letter the FDA dose not consider it bioequivalant. A -20% difference on these levels with most medications are pretty insignificant. However I do agree that with things like opiates there are deffinately differences felt with different brands since the effects of these medications are primarily felt on a mental level ie. euphoria. When you take a medication that actually gives you a feeling when its working, if one brand is on the lower end of the blood concentration level measurement and a different brand is on the higher level its not unlikely that some users will feel a significant difference if you are used to taking one brand. ***Below is a direct qoute from the FDA reexplaing what I wrote above.***
Now as for the Endocet versus Oxy/APAP of others brands originally posted years past, I actually like Mallinckrodts 10/325 better than Endocet 10/325 however I do not like and will not accept Mallinckrodts 5/325.
***Bioequivalence is defined as “the absence of a significant difference in the rate and extent to which the active ingredient or active moiety in pharmaceutical equivalents or pharmaceutical alternatives becomes available at the site of drug action when administered at the same molar dose under similar conditions in an appropriately designed study...”. To evaluate bioequivalence, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has employed a testing procedure termed the two one-sided tests procedure ([i]) to determine whether the average values for the pharmacokinetic measures from the test and reference products are comparable. This procedure involves the calculation of a confidence interval for the ratio between the average values of the test and reference product. FDA considers a test product to be bioequivalent to a reference product if the 90% confidence interval of the geometric mean ratio of AUC and Cmax between the test and reference fall within 80-125
August 29, 2009 - 5:31pm
#50
I know, as solo posted, that
I know, as solo posted, that a lot of people associate effectiveness with euphoria. Or as another poster smell and taste. But I rate effectiveness on effectiveness. The Mylan percs killed my pain. My pharmacy also carries Endocet but I have never gotten them, that I know of. I have tried taking the Mally's with/without food and every way possible. I never did that with the Mylan. Thank goodness my appt is this week. Has anyone ever tried the Myaln percs? Take care, htmom
Hi there,
Believe it or not, Endocet pills are made by the exact manufacturer as Percocet, Endo Pharmaceuticals. So therefore, Endocet is technically a brand name. The only reason the company manufacturers two different brand named Oxycodone/Acetaminophen pills is because they vary slightly both by Oxycodone/Acetaminophen dosage and color.
Percocet Oxycodone/Acetaminophen combonations:
2.5/325mg (Pink colored, oval) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 2.5
5.0/325mg (Blue colored, round) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 5
7.5/325mg (Peach colored, oval) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 7.5/325
7.5/500mg (Peach colored, oblong) Imprinted with PERCOCET - 7.5
10.0/325mg (Yellow colored, oblong) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 10/325
10.0/650mg (Yellow colored, oval) - Imprinted with PERCOCET - 10
Now compare those with the Endocet Oxycodone/Acetaminophen combonations:
5.0/325mg (White colored, round) - Imprinted with Endo602
7.5/325mg (Peach colored, oblong) - Imprinted with E700 - 7.5/325
7.5/500mg (Peach colored, oblong) - Imprinted with E796 - 7.5
10.0/325mg (Yellow colored, oval) - Imprinted with E712 - 10/325
10.0/650mg (Yellow colored, oval) - Imprinted with E797 - 10
As far as potency, at least with Hydrocodone/Acetaminophen pills), I have seen about 98% of people preferring the Watson Generic brand of the 10/325mg (Instead of brand named Norco) and 10/500mg (Instead of brand named Lortab). The people that prefer these generics seem to think that they are stronger, and perhaps they are; but by law, all generics must contain the exact same active ingredients as their brand name equivalents, it's just the binders and fillers that can be messed around with a bit. So as far as Percocet and Endocet being the same potency, by law and chemical equivalency, yes they are, but how your body reacts to one pill may be different than how it does for another. HTH!