July 10, 2007 - 1:40pm
I just found out that i probably posted this in the wrong topic. So i'll give it another shot.
I have recently caught my son, age 17, taking vicodin. When i asked him how many he was taking, he was saying it depends on what kind. Sometimes he would be taking three to seven pills.
What i'm trying to figure out i guess is:
Are there such vicodins called "1000s" or "1300s"?
I did some research and also saw that there is hydrocodone as well as acetaminophen. He said that he started off taking higher doses of hydrocodone with minor dosages of acetaminophen. Im guessing that would be something like a 10/500?? I honestly have no clue. He was saying that taking more of the higher containing hydrocodones/lower containing acetaminophen is better for your liver. I do understand that hydrocodone is addictive, i just want to make sure he hasnt been overdosing on acetaminophen to where his liver could be in a 40 year old's condition.
Again, i am new to this so any replies at all will be greatly appretiated
(edited by TeamPharmer)
July 10, 2007 - 2:26pm
#2
ok so...
So you are saying teenagers/adults dont even go by the amount of acetaminophen but rather just the amount of hydrocodone? That in a way relieves me a lot. My son isn't what people would consider a heavy drinker. Sometimes on weekends ill let him and a few of his buddies come over our house and we'll play poker and some xbox 360 and ill allow drinking. Not to sound like a bad parent, even though he's almost 18, i wont allow anyone of his friends to drive. Ill take their keys and whatnot and ill order pizza and stuff. All of that i am pretty lenient on but when i found out about these pills, that's when i started to worry. I dont want to sound like a hypocrite because back in 70's i would experiement with some drugs so in a wayyyy i kind of get what he is going through. However, after researching some of these painkillers like vicodin, norcos, and oxycontin, i was getting a little worried due to their addictivness.
So was my son just not knowledgeable about there being a "thirteen hundred"? To me that sounds kind of high if he were to be taking 3-7 pills. He also told me that he makes sure he doesnt drink when taking them and he doesnt do it everyday/week. Somewhere around once or twice a month. He also said that when he DID drink a little when taking them, he made sure he only drank 2 mixed drinks, enough vodka to fill 4 shots. Im not saying he took shots, just trying to compare how much he drank.
July 10, 2007 - 2:38pm
#3
I'm confused.Not about the
I'm confused.
Not about the Vicodin.
About the drinking.
He's a minor.
You're an adult.
Be one.
July 10, 2007 - 2:40pm
#4
haha
And what was the legal drinking age when you were young?
Thanks. Bye.
July 10, 2007 - 2:42pm
#5
21.
21.
July 10, 2007 - 2:42pm
#6
obviously you are way
obviously you are way younger than i am.
July 10, 2007 - 4:40pm
#7
The good ol' days when you
The good ol' days when you could sip at 18, nevertheless 16 in the bahamas still if that. Personally If you never drank before you were 21 you've never left the house.
About your kid, he obviously is addicted to them, so you need to help him wean off, get him legitimate pain management, or take him to the clinic or a doctor. Maybe all 3.
July 10, 2007 - 4:56pm
#8
saywhat wrote:Personally If
saywhat wrote:
Personally If you never drank before you were 21 you've never left the house
Personally, I never got into drinking.
Not bumping- removing some stuff.
July 10, 2007 - 5:06pm
#9
Thats a good thing, but I
Thats a good thing, but I never got into drinking either-but i did drink under 21. What does "not bumping-removing some stuff" mean? Just curious, cheers and salude to those that want to toast.
July 10, 2007 - 5:08pm
#10
I took out some information
I took out some information I had posted, it was irrelevant.
I have nothing against those who drink, or those who choose not to. But, there are laws, and they are to be followed. Under 21, in the US, drinking is illegal. Regardless if it is done in a controlled environment or not. If the police show up, the kids get busted for underage consumption of alcohol, while the parent, or the adult, gets charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
July 10, 2007 - 5:16pm
#11
Im a bit confused as well,
Im a bit confused as well, is their any hydrocodone pill with 1300mg's of acet. or were you saying that that was the one he was wrong about. And are you saying he doesn't drink and take them everyday, or he just doesn't take the pills everyday? I'd have to say I'd be a little weary about that statement. Pain pills aren't like LSD-I imagine this may have been part of your experimentation, they are very addictive. Anyway I'm glad you don't let his friends drive drunk and it's a good bonding experience with your son, it will get it out of his system early. Maybe do some old fashion bonding with the good ol' Hoffman recipe-that might be a fun night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 10, 2007 - 5:21pm
#12
I agree GP, but it's hard
I agree GP, but it's hard for us old folk when it really wasn't a big deal in the 70's if you drank underage. However in this day and age you are correct and parents get locked up for some pretty petty stuff. You must concur that it is better to drink under parental supervision, than out and about and then driving home. But the law is the law, so you are correct.
July 10, 2007 - 10:46pm
#13
I know you said you are new
I know you said you are new to most of this, so I will try to explain as best as possible without irritating people, and I will TRY not to make it too long, as I have a habit of that.
1. Vicodin is name-brand for the pill hydrocodone/acetaminophen (tylenol, or apap). It is also called Lortab, Norco, Xodol, vicodin (ES, or HP). Each different name refers to the amount of either hydro or tylenol in it. So people often inter-change the names hydrocodone and vicodin, just like acetaminophen and tylenol.
2. Using the term 500's, 750's, 1000's came from the most well-known of the hydrocodone pills; 5/500. Even though this has 5mg of hydro, and 500mg of tylenol, people who did not know the ingredients (and didn't know there was tylenol) interpreted the number combo above to mean that it is a 500mg hydro. using this, when they saw 7.5/500, they said it was a 750, and likewise for the 10's- it had to be a 1000. but that is the highest it goes.
3. As someone else stated, the daily recommended dosage for tylenol intake is no more than 4000mg. If your son were prescribed 5/500 or 10/500 pills, then he should not take more than 8/day (500x8=4000).
4. If you look at our narcotic reference page, you can see that hydrocodone is only mass-produced in 5mg, 7.5mg, and 10mg pills. They have tylenol in amounts of 300mg, 325mg, 500mg, 650mg, 750mg, and a few others that aren't often prescribed.
Yes, your son was right that lower amounts of tylenol (apap) are better for your liver than higher amounts; however, if he is not prescribed the vicodin, then no amount of it is good for him.
Does he take any other kind of regular medication? Does he ever take tylenol for headaches, or cold medicine? There are so many medications out there that can react with vicodin, and that have tylenol in it that you are unaware of- this is why it is impairative that he only take it if given by a doc, that way his doctor can decide what amount is safe.
Alcohol is bad for the liver, as well as tylenol. Taking the two together just intensifies the effects, thus making it probably twice as bad on his liver. He should never take pills and drink alcohol together EVER- PERIOD.
Obviously, he is only taking it for recreation, and not for actual pain. I really mean no offense here, but treating him like this is okay can lead to even worse drug seeking behaviors, and lead to abusing even worse drugs. If he can find this type of diverted drug on the street, and you do not do something about it now to let him know that it is NOT okay, then what is going to stop him from "trying" the heavier addictive drugs on the street, like meth and cocaine?
Yeah, you may let him drink alittle at home in your supervision (which I AM NOT CONDONING AT ALL), but that is a substance that will be legal for him in four years. I can understand that as a parent you are aware that he will be doing those things anyway, whether you say he can or not, so you are doing the best you can think of to at least make sure he is safe, and that is to be able to supervise.
Again, I AM NOT SAYING IT"S OKAY, but in a way its like letting a kid drive before they are sixteen. it's something that at their current age is not legal, but will be in the future when they hit that certain age; one day it will be legal for them to do it whenever they want. But taking and abusing drugs like this is NEVER legal. buying pills, or any drug, off the street will NEVER be legal, so should NEVER be allowed.
I truly hope everything works out for your son and you, and that you see this as an opportunity to really have a genuine talk with him and realize what all is out there and available to teens these days. It is good that you can talk to him, and that he told you about the pills, but remember that teens are not always honest, so there may always be more unknown...
Please let me know if you ever need anything, send a personal message if you want, or have any other questions!
I'm a social worker, not a medical professional. All comments and thoughts are simply my opinion and experience.
(edited by TeamPharmer)
July 11, 2007 - 8:54am
#14
The 70's and NOW
I don't mean to ^*#% in, but here goes anyway. qwertyddr we may about the same age. I was in undergraduate school between 68-72, so you might say, I am familiar with the rebellious activities during those times. I've seen Pink Floyd, Hendrix, The Who, you name them. and had the fun that accompanied these events. The Vietnam war was in full swing.
During those years, when we were old enough to kill Vietnamese and be killed by them, the drinking age went to 18 for a while, but as we know it upped to 21 later and now. I also have two kids, daughter 16 and son 21. Although my wife and I have always been honest about the ways of the world with both our kids, I personally have tried my best to not act as the role model that might glorify drug use. Granted they are going to do what they are going to do. My son is over 21 now so we are much closer, as I can have a glass of wine while he has a beer and we can talk about whatever.........
I understand your post and I truly do not mean this post to be judgmental. Please bear with me. You're smart to be concerned about his liver, but you should also be concerned that he is getting what docs consider narcotics without a prescription, particularly in the quantities you insinuate. Your quote: "Sometimes he would be taking three to seven pills". Even at a minimum amount of tylenol thats too much if he takes that many at one. One is too much if they are not prescribed by a doc.
I admire that he was so honest with you about this. That my friend is incredible and unusual. You must be doing something right, for sure. You can be honest with him too and tell him that the addiction to the narcotic can over time be a really nasty thing and could tear a big hole in what appears to be a wonderful relationship you have with him. The vicodin is more comparable to Heroin than it is to LSD or Marijuana (I am NOT comparing it to Heroin-just emphasizing a point). Not to mention the trouble he could get in copping the pills. Jail is possible. Withdrawals in Jail is not a pretty picture and believe me they won't be sympathetic to his plight.
Others here can give you better details about chemical makeup of hydrocodone. I use Norco a hydro/APAP product myself, with a prescription for chronic pain. All I know is that it is a slight step down from Oxycodone which is an opiate. Pharmer members, please help me here. Is hydrocodone a synthetic opiate, or a direct dirivitive? Anyway use that great honest relationship you have to talk with him about the dangers of this.
As for the drinking I can't judge you as a parent. I was finding beer bottles in my sons room from 17 on, so I know it happens. He's had parties at my house, where I truly checked ID on some of his friends. Embarrasing but true. I've "throttled" more than one aggressive drunk, in my own house at my sons parties also calling more than one cab. I checked these IDs and 21 was the minimum age I would allow other kids to drink in my home. Did some of them cheat and sneak them in? Sure, but I tried. I would have been liable if one of his buddies at 17 or any age really, got blasted drunk and drove away from my house. Good luck, you've been placed in a difficult position and you are smart to seek advice.
I don't have a clue what the 1000s and 1300s are. Like the other members, perhaps its the total APAP in a dose of 2. There are no vicodins called this to my knowledge, but street language is different in various locations. Maybe 1000's is 2 each hydros with 500 mg of APAP and 1300s are 2 each at 650MG of APAP. This nomenclature strangely doesn't include the amount of hydro, which can range in those class III drugs from 5 mg (maybe lower) to 7.5, to 10mg. It's also wierd because anyone that takes them for euphoric reasons is probably taking more than 2 anyway.
thelifeline
"Humility, the greatest and least appreciated quality in a man/woman"
July 11, 2007 - 8:53am
#15
Thank you for the people
Thank you for the people that realize teenagers drink and that im just trying to make sure they are doing it safe.
Also, whoever said they remember the days back when it was 18, i cheers to you for understanding a little more.
Sorry this is turning into an alcohol discussion more than my intentional subject, but i just want to clearify so facts first.
I happen to live in Michigan, pretty close to Canada. The legal drinking age in Canada is 19. When he turns 19, I would still feel a lot more safe buying my son and some of his friends some beer and just have a small party at our house on the weekend rather than them driving across the border, getting drunk with no supervision, and try to cross back over. I forgot who asked about if he drinks and pops pills everyday. The answer is NO. Now...i know i was able to sometimes "sober" up for 5 minutes when i got home from drinking and had to see my parents before going to bed to convince them i wasnt drinking, and ill admit, i pretty much got away with it everytime. I keep a good eye on him and he was saying yesterday that he didnt take vicodin everyday, every other day, even every week because he doesnt want to build an immunity to it. and He actually is working a 40 hour job where he has to get up at 6:30 every morning so he can go off to work. He does well in school and has great potential, i just dont want him to take the wrong path at the fork in the road.
JS- thank you for taking the time on the big explaination. That cleared up pretty much all the holes i had. Actually, yesterday i told him about the 4000mg intake of apap a day and asked why would he take 7 to 8 pills. He said something along the lines of like the higher the hydrocodone, the better it makes you feel. So he said like he would find low apap vicodins with high hydrocodone so he could take like he said, 7 to 8 a day, like 4 or 5 at a time. (Would that be like a 10/500? I dont know if there is a lower apap content with 10mg of hydrocodone so that's what i would guess).
Teenages DO lie, i know i used to back in the day when my mom found weed in my jeans that i forgot to take out, trying to blame it on someone else. My dad still got out his belt and let me have it. I would never do that to my son nowadays since he is almost an adult, i figure i should treat him like one. A Co Worker and i were talking and he is in the same position as me a little. We both used to experiment with drugs back in the day when everything was thought to be normal. Then he mentioned that kids these days are the Rx Generation? Is that somewhat true since the gov't has cracked down on most narcotics? Will they start to crack down on rx drugs or is it a lost cause due to the fact that some people actually need pain meds?
Again, thank you for trying to understand everyone. This has helped me so much and its actually making it easier to talk to my son. Knowing the terminology makes it seem like i know more about this than him and i will use it to try to scare him away from it.
(edited by TeamPharmer)
July 11, 2007 - 9:00am
#16
Post for Gtrplayer......
"Gtrplayer wrote me and cleared this up. He can't post on the site right now due to problems with the spam module. Hydrocodone is a semi-synthetic opiate derived from two of the naturally occurring opiates, codeine, and thebaine"
thelifeline
"Humility, the greatest and least appreciated quality in a man/woman"
July 11, 2007 - 9:06am
#17
Ah yes Pink Floyd, Hendrix,
Ah yes Pink Floyd, Hendrix, and my personal favorite, SRV.
I can easily say that i am going through what you just described about finding beer bottles and cabs. I never tried the carding trick, thats a good idea. I do however say no sometimes just to show that my house isnt going to be the local weekend, alcohol-infested, drug-trading house on the nice civilized, quiet block. Stuff happens, like you said. I know if he were to goto college, lets say...WMU. Western Michigan University, nicknamed, "Wastern". I know for a fact there will be frat parties, dorm parties, keggers, ect. to which he will most likely attend.
Trying to get him out of this vicodin stage is indeed a head scratcher and not being familiar with it makes it even harder. What would happen if he gets ahold of norcos? Are those even more addicting than vics? This is how i see addictiveness, just from reading:
Vicodin < Norco < OxyContin
Hopefully i can prevent him from moving up which will make this easier to handle. So the 1000's and 1300's are basically myths. Thank you for clearing up another hole in my knowledge on this subject.
July 11, 2007 - 9:10am
#18
That was funny
Your post reminded me of when my parents found some weed in my room when I was in college, asked me about it and I told them I was holding it for a friend.....LOL
I found this very same weed stored in a cabinet, 34 years later after I buried my parents in 2004 when I was cleaning their home for sale......It had gotten pretty dry..................LOL.
thelifeline
"Humility, the greatest and least appreciated quality in a man/woman"
July 11, 2007 - 9:17am
#19
HAHAHA but you know for a
HAHAHA but you know for a fact that is was the easiest, on-the-spot escuse. "It's not mine, i dont even like smoking it mom, it's my friend's, honest"
Mom tells dad...dad doesnt give a !$@# and still knows the truth...i receive the belt.
34 years later? wowwww. that is wild.
July 11, 2007 - 9:22am
#20
Yup I still listen to Stevie
I still listen to the old Stevie Ray. Roger Waters was on the Earth Live show the other night (without Gilmore), playing Another Brick in the Wall.
Norco's are the same thing, just less tylenol. 10 mg hydro/325 mg APAP. It would be too tempting to take more of these if he's taking them to get high. I take 2 to handle the pain, and frankly I don't get any euphoria on this quantity, just pain relief. Not sure if I would educate him on the Norco, as like I said, these would be more tempting to take more thinking he's OK with less APAP. I don't know which ones are even available on the street. I had never heard of them until my doc prescribed them to lower my APAP intake.
thelifeline
"Humility, the greatest and least appreciated quality in a man/woman"
July 11, 2007 - 9:24am
#21
Texas Flood, probably one of
Texas Flood, probably one of my favorite songs from SRV. Pink Floyd was high up there on my favorite bands. I bought the dvd Pulse and man...not only memories come back but the music is just outstanding.
ok so note to self, dont tell him about norcos.
July 11, 2007 - 10:17am
#22
Not a judgement
I don't think Norco's are readily available on the street, don't really know. I know you're trying to manage this yourself right now and I admire that you respect his identity and the relationship that you have with him is great. Use this to your advantage. Have you ever, or do you know anyone who has ever gone through withdrawals from opiates? It's horrible and "could" be very dangerous, without medical supervision, depending on his general health and level of addiction. I don't mean to scare you, its different for different folks. On the other hand, suffice it to say, it "ain't" no walk in the park.
My advice right now would be change the attitude that this recreational use is OK, because with opiates, it's NOT. It's dangerous. How long has he been taking them, and how many times a day does he take 4-7 pills? Does he have a chronic pain condition? If he does take him to a doc and see what he/she says. If he doesn't then this is a LOT more dangerous for him and your whole family than LSD and pot was to you and me in the hippie days. He may already be addicted. Ask him to stop taking them for a day or so and see what happens, or how long he can go without the pills. Please, I'm not trying judge you, I promise. He is playing with fire, not a trash can fire but a really big forest fire....................I know you love him. Maybe you can talk him into doing sometime reasonable using your great relationship. You can't just let him keep taking the narcotic pills, especially without a prescriiption. If a neighbor or the parents of one of his friends finds out, they can call social services on you and this can be a BIG problem.
Dr. Lois, where are you?
thelifeline
"Humility, the greatest and least appreciated quality in a man/woman"
July 11, 2007 - 10:18am
#23
Well since we are pretty
Well since we are pretty honest with each other, i believe him. I stated i believe in my opening post or close to it, he said he would take them maybe once or twice a month. That has me guessing that he hasnt been taking them long which is a relief. He's told me a lot that i wouldnt think a kid would tell their parents, maybe it's because i dont erupt with anger? maybe it's because i tell him about my days? who knows. He has come forward and told me he's smoked weed, but doesnt like it at all so he doesnt smoke it even when it's present. Comforting. He also told me that he has tried xanax, didn't get "high" and basically fell asleep and hated the amnesia he suffered the next day, doesnt like it, didnt do it again. Again, comforting. Since he is telling me these facts about him, i believe him pretty much 100%. So when he says that he takes vicodin once to three times max a month, it doesnt seem that bad to me now. Obviously, abusing an opioid when not perscribed IS bad, but knowing that he hasnt been doing it that long with wide breaks in between, is good.
LSD made my walls breathe :]
July 11, 2007 - 10:47am
#24
You did say the usage sorry
You did say how much and how often he was taking them. Sorry I didn't read that part. So it may not be as dangerous as I was getting excited about, but remember, I lied to my parents about the pot. You lied to yours, they all lie a little bit when they are doing something they don't want to provide full disclosure on. Sorry, but you know its true. I trust that he is telling you the truth about this. I trust my kids too and believe them, so we'll leave that at that.......If you lose the trust you lose the good relationship you have now......
He is still playing with fire. If he "likes" this euphoric feeling, he may want to do it "more". Feel free to PM me if you like. I've been bumping (editing my post too much) trying to get the words right and Team Pharmer doesn't like bumping. Sorry TP.
thelifeline
"Humility, the greatest and least appreciated quality in a man/woman"
July 11, 2007 - 10:51am
#25
Wow! this has definitely
Wow! this has definitely became a classic pharmer thread.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
July 11, 2007 - 11:01am
#26
True lifeline. Very true.
True lifeline. Very true. Well, i guess i got the knowledge i needed from you all and i thank you so much. I'll keep you all posted on how the situation is going, whether i need more help/advice or whether he quits taking them. I dont want to keep this thread constantly bumped since you said they dont get too happy with it.
Again, thank you all.
July 11, 2007 - 11:05am
#27
You're fine, don't go away
No it was "me" that was bumping by editing my posts, going back to change the words. You're fine. Stick around, keep us up on it.
thelifeline
"Humility, the greatest and least appreciated quality in a man/woman"
July 11, 2007 - 11:07am
#28
ahhh ok ok i get it. But
ahhh ok ok i get it.
But yea, thanks again. Any other suggestions from anyone would be nice.
July 11, 2007 - 11:00pm
#29
Well it seems you two have
Well it seems you two have had a pretty long conversation while I've been gone, lol, so there is alot I want to address that I may have to come back to:
Remember all the names i told you that they are called: Lortab, Norco, Vicodin, Xodol, hydrocodone. If you hear any of these they are all the same thing just with different amounts in it. Like thelifeline said, Norco has 10/325, and is one of the pills with the lowest amount of tylenol and highest amount of hydrocodone (besides Xodol with 300mg of tylenol). Just the same, if he hears about this he may think he can take even more...
Like I said before, the max daily dose is 4000mg, but the max dose to take at once is 1000mg. So if he has a 10/500, he should not take more than 2/time. Of course, taking more will give more "euphoria", which is the only thing that your son is trying to get out of these.
Does he smoke cigarettes? I ask this because if he does, then try to show him through these how addictive pills can be. If he smokes, tell him to go two days with not one puff on a cigarette and see if he had withdrawls.
Pills are one of those vices that people get where they take a few recreationally every couple weeks, then it gets to be every week, then every couple days, until he is taking them every day. Once this happens, the addiction gets worse where all his income goes to needing "that feeling", then its not even the feeling but just the opiate in his system. he will get to where he doesn't get the same "high" but will still keep increasing his tolerance.
This is the Rx generation because everyone takes a pill for something, or thinks all their ailments can be healed with pills. I don't know what else the government will come up with to try to stop it, but they have already been putting certain measure into place. They have been watching oxycontin prescriptions because docs used to be real bad about giving them to everyone. there have been a lot of docs facing charges for this. Alot of states make them send of what they give out to the DEA, and keep it in databases. The DEA knows alot of who gives, and who gets narcotics meds. Also, pharmacies (what I know of) require you to show ID when getting a script filled. There are alot more laws and rules to getting it, like CII has to be filled within 7 days.
I would say almost any kind of hydrocodone pill that is made can be found on the street. But, when your son "gets them" he is probably only told what mg of hydrocodone they are, and not what mg of tylenol is in it as that is not what people on the street are worried about.
For someone who does not know a pill or how much hydro or tylenol is in it, they can look on a database for the imprint code, or talk to a pharmacist or someone who knows from experience. We have a narcotic database on here that has the manuf., the mg of hydro/tylenol, and usually the description, if not a picture.
I still have to caution you that your son could face severe legal trouble if ever caught with pills that are not prescribed, as well as also possibly suffering medical problems when taking medicines that are not prescribed. Please, please do not allow him to take pills that are not prescribed.
I'm a social worker, not a medical professional. All comments and thoughts are simply my opinion and experience.
July 11, 2007 - 11:13pm
#30
Stop
As a former painkiller addict, you need to take your "child" to rehab NOW. Taking this many pain killers is no longer for fun, it's an early sign of an addict. Trust me, if you want to skip years and years of suffering, take him to rehab now even if your not sure if it's that bad. It is better safe than sorry especially if you already know he's been experimenting with larger dosages (seven pills at a time is no laughing matter). The least of my worries would be the acetomenopin at this point. However, you said your child drinks a little.. Well the alchohol will defintely increase the potency of the pills and make them highly dangerous. Good luck and get help for your "child".
.
July 12, 2007 - 8:19am
#31
Thanks for the advice ajx.
Thanks for the advice ajx. Yea i know that the alcohol increases the effect but according to what he says, he doesnt drink when he takes the vicodin.
JS-No he doesnt smoke cigarettes...well, anything could be hidden, but i would bet a great amount on that he doesnt. I do, and i know the addiction is horrid. It's hard to even last an hour without one. Maybe ill just try using my smoking habits to compare him to his pill habits. I started off smoking slow as a teen, then just kept growing since i liked the head buzz it gave me. Now i receive nothing; just wasting money.
I dont know if having daily meetings with him is such a good idea because i dont want to get him annoyed to the point where he snaps and rebels like i used to when i was a teen. I just need to hit him with everything i know at once and win the arguement/talk. I think people can relate to me on this. No one really wanted to have the talk with their dad about drugs and sex everyday, chapter by chapter; they would just want to hear it all at once and never again.
July 12, 2007 - 8:44pm
#32
I just had to bring up that
I just had to bring up that old acid
lol, Loved the weed story, sorry about your parents TLL. Jimmy and Pink floyd, and the instumental magician SRV. Don't know about stevie but the other's loved that H and it's a shame. Killed jimmy. Comfortably numb-great song. It's good that you can talk to the kid and you guys are honest with each other. However, if he can get vicodin and enjoys it, he might just get some oxycontin and love it. As TLL said it is more like (pure) heroin and this isn't a walk in the park. Acid made some interesting things appear to be happening, great drug except the next day you feel like you got hit with a brick in the head. This isn't the case with narcotics-they come from opium and its' derivites, such as thebaine. Tolerance builds rapidly, withdrawal is a living ???$* and an addiction will rape your pockets. Shame he doesn't like weed cause he'd be a lot better off. You really need to put your foot down, not for your sake but his.
July 14, 2007 - 8:34pm
#33
Playing With Fire
Let me tell you that by allowing your underaged son to take Hydro's and drink is a bad idea, he can/will become addicted and that is going to be hard to overcome. The best thing you can do is help him get off the pills ASAP I guess most kids experiment with drinking so I wouldn't be encouraging him to do it by allowing him to do it at home. trust me you do not want him hooked on pain pills. I take them out because I don't have a option due to neck and back damage and when I run out it is terrible. He sounds to me is taking them recreationally and will become addicted then you will be paying 4-6 bucks a pop for them on the street or he will be stealing to buy them himself.
July 16, 2007 - 8:01am
#34
He never said he let him
He never said he let him take hydros coop...he wants him to stop. Kids are going to drink at least once. Most of them will continue to drink. It's not even that big of a deal as long as they know their limits and don't go out making stupid decisions
July 18, 2007 - 3:45am
#35
drinking and opiods is stupid
a depressent with a opiod pain killer cpmbo
i think its a waste of time
just choose one and not mix.... or kill your liver
with Alcohol consumption n Asprin that could ruin your liver
<<<,,,<,HaV0K..>>..>..>p3aCe...ONE LUV.
July 24, 2007 - 2:58am
#36
I found this website for you
I found this website for you that might be interesting to look at, or have your son look at. I haven't had the chance to look all the way through it, but hopefully you will. Good luck, and I hope all is well!
I'm a social worker, not a medical professional. All comments and thoughts are simply my opinion and experience.
July 25, 2007 - 8:21pm
#37
Your son is obviously not
Your son is obviously not addicted, if he was he would know a little more about what he was taking, and would not be calling them "1000s". True addicts obsess about their drug of choice and constantly research ways to get it and information about it. He seems like most other teenagers in the U.S. I hate to say it but prescription medicine is the new marijuana. He does seem to be addicted unless he is just playing you, but he will be if you dont get a hold on him and stop him from what he is doing. I have been on Hydrocodone for about a year for shoulder pain, I take it as prescribed and still have negative side effects if I dont take my meds in any given day. Thats just my opinion, take it or leave it, but dont depend on it.
July 27, 2007 - 1:39pm
#38
probably not addicted
im a teen, if used vicodin before a few times and i really dont find it that addictive and i was using it a few times a week...so a few times a month is not bad at all...well it is bad since its prescription pill abuse but he almost definetly will not be addicted now just watch out for the acetaminophen in the pills do not exceed 4000mg of ATAP per day
July 27, 2007 - 4:55pm
#39
...
Sorry about the emoticon, but I think it displayed what gtrplayer said very well. Bad advice was spewing all over the place.
July 27, 2007 - 4:20pm
#40
OxyCotton wrote:so a few
OxyCotton wrote:
so a few times a month is not bad at all
That's bad advice, and untrue. If taken without a prescription, it is drug abuse. To say that any amount of drug abuse is permissible goes against what the site is about.
gtrplayer
July 27, 2007 - 5:31pm
#41
I would agree with the fact
I would agree with the fact that taking any prescription drug without a valid script to be drug abuse, it does not always mean that the said person is addicted to them. Usually people who refer to them as "thousands" and terms like that are only occaisional abusers which although wrong is not as bad as people who can see any number on a hydrocodone pill and know the exact mg and ratio of hydro/apap. You should still impress upon your son the seriousness of taking these pills as it is still an illegal habit and could lead down a road that you wouldn't want him going down.
July 27, 2007 - 6:52pm
#42
With a screen name like
With a screen name like oxycotton I can't see much good advice being spewed. We're all glad you can take a couple a week and pretend you're not thinking about them daily. This thread has been done to death and needs to be capped before MS-contin, percocet and dilaudid give any advice.
Check with a liscensed MD before you take any suggestions!
July 27, 2007 - 9:05pm
#43
I used to start off with
I used to start off with drugs like Vicodin. Taking just a few here and there, sometimes with a couple of drinks. And it was fun. You feel good, you're having fun. My parents were also aware, and because I kept it under control, they never said too much. But, unfortunately, the few here and there quickly turned into more and more. Now, of course, not all of us have addictive personalities, but because these pain meds make you feel so great, so MANY young people get hooked on them and can't stop! I'll spare you the years of details, but just up to recently, I was so addicted to oxycodone (which is almost the same as hydrocodone, the drug found in vicodin, lortab, percocet, etc, just the next step up and they just get prescribed as that, no addtl. tylenol added to the pill), that I was eating between 15-25 30mg oxycodone pills every day. My habit became so expensive, I spent every penny I had on it. If I would run out, the withdrawals were ???$*. It is exactly the same as trying to kick heroin! You can't sleep, everything hurts, you get major chills, you're sweating like crazy, you can't sleep, you can't get up, you can't eat, you can't stop twitching/tossing and turning, you vomit, you have diarrhea-all these good things are caused by the body needing the hydrocodone/oxycodone! I'm not trying to scare you-it's the honest truth! If you google about this topic, you will see how bad it actually is. Kids all over the country have not only been in and out of rehab because of them, but are also dieing all over. It's really scary!! Most of my friends are now on Heroin, because what has happened to all of us, nothing works anymore! You can eat an amount of pills, that would kill a normal person, and feel NOTHING! It's like you're throwing the pills in to a bottomless pit. I did get off oxy's using methadone, which is the same drug prescribed to heroin addicts to try to get them off heroin. I liked the methadone so much, I got hooked on it. Again, habit became too much to afford. I am now to the point, that I take a few morphines or methadones here and there, but all it does is make my body function. I do not get high, because nothing works. Just last week, I got my hands on oxy's and ended up taking a total of 250mg of oxycodone, and felt almost nothing! This is sick!
Because of eating all those thousands of miligrams of tylenol every day for 1.5 years, I now have pancreatitis, which after months of doctor visits and never being able to find the reason, we have now learned is caused by abusing presription meds. I'm in constant pain in my liver area, the area between my breast, which is where the pancreas is and I deal with more health problems than a person age 60. And the kicker is-I'm only 24 years old. But because my friends and I started at 15, thats what I get!
That being said, I think it's ridiculous that a person, with the same screen name as what got me in to this mess, would post a comment saying that it's ok to take them, since he/she does and is not addicted! Come on...
Again, I know most people don't have an addictive personality, but if you can see that your child or loved one is taking these drugs, and he doesn't have a prescription, than shouldn't you ask questions? Of course, you can purchase ANY pill you want on the streets, so taking them away won't just do it, but don't stand by and watch it happen. Liver damage-yes, it's scary, but the main concern right now should be to get him off!! It will only turn in to a bigger problem, if he is already now, taking them just because...no injury, no prescription-Just because he likes it!
I know I'm not much older than your son, but this shouldn't matter. Maybe if you explain to him that there are people closer to his age out there that have been there and just want him to understand this is not something he should keep doing, that maybe he'll at least take the time to listen to you and think about this...
Blessings...
Steph
July 27, 2007 - 10:24pm
#44
cdandmmsmom wrote:I am now
cdandmmsmom wrote:
I am now to the point, that I take a few morphines or methadones here and there, but all it does is make my body function. I do not get high, because nothing works. Just last week, I got my hands on oxy's and ended up taking a total of 250mg of oxycodone, and felt almost nothing! This is sick!
After you go through the withdrawal cycle and your brains opiate receptors and other nerve ending heal(6 months-1 year average), your tolerence will go away. Its hard for me to believe that if you only take opiates occasionaly that you could take 250mg Oxycodone and feel almost nothing, let alone not have adverse side effects. IMHO this was a very irresponsible post. Oh yea and another little nit picking thing, Percocets dont have Hydrocodone in them.
July 27, 2007 - 10:53pm
#45
Help with Norco
Good Day all In 2001 I had back surgery that changed my life and wished to god I din't. I recently noticed in some posts the subject of generics mainly Qualitest vs mallinckrodt regarding norco 10/325. I have been on it for over five years and just today something happened and I found this page. The drugs stopped working at all regardless of brand. Mallinckrodt stopped the first week I was on it the other Qualitest stayed working till today. I have gone from One to two every 4-6 hours but its effectiveness was effected over time and now it won't work at all. Here comes the weird part, when you add my sinus infection into the mix there are no feelings to the drug and you can take the whole bottle and nothing. Not that I would but I tried to increase the dose for tolerance check and still nothing. Is this my liver gone or is it something else. Please anyone? No withdrawals either its weird. I went to the hospital and they gave me a shot of morphine before fixing stitches that came loose and I did not feel that either. They might have used water for the good it did. How do I fix this.... Can anyone help with suggestions?
July 28, 2007 - 2:42am
#46
Well apparantly you are
Well apparantly you are superman and your powers are not letting you get the effect of the drug anymore. seriously though, being at the same dose for five years is an awful long time not to build tolerance and have you tried going cold turkey to actually see if you don't get withdrawal? if your liver was gone I think you would die-so thats not the case. You should probably consult a medical professional about these very odd problems because this is something no one on here is going to be able to help with. I would guess it is a brain issue, not to scare you, but thats where the pleasure center is and it is obvioulsy not being activated. Good luck man, hope you are okay.
Check with a liscensed MD before you take any suggestions!
July 28, 2007 - 6:48am
#47
SOLO5010
Hey Solo5010 I want to add my 2 cents in this topic..at one point of my life i was taking 75 percocet a day or 5 oxy 80mg pills. I cleaned myself up and stayed sober for 5 years. Not as single drug or pill. Then I had a operation and my tolerence was worse I took 4 percocet after the operation and 1 week later I was back up to 5 oxy 80mg pills. Me personally my tolerance stayed if not worse and I have heard about that happening and it was true for ME. I am not syaing anyone else but for ME. I have since cleaned my life up using suboxone. I have never felt better.. Just my 2 cents....
July 28, 2007 - 9:05am
#48
250mg at one time?
I am confused. Knowing what you know you still took 250mg of OXY "last week".....Why?????????????? WHY?????
Was it straight oxy or combined with APAP, meaning you know you took way too much tylenol with an already screwed up liver and pancreas.
I can't really think of what to say without responding to each point and Team Pharmer would edit my post if not delete it.
I will give you one piece of advice. GET THE HECK AWAY FROM THOSE FRIENDS THAT ARE DOING HEROIN....NOW--NOW. They are NOT your friends. They are NOT your friends.
I have true empathy for folks with drug problems, but I don't have any empathy for folks that carefully build a noose, then slowly and carefully put it around their neck, then methodically jump off the chair, again and again and again. That is what you are doing........
To take a quote from your own post....."This is sick!"
Your heart is in the right place to give the OP the advice to get his kid off the pills. Use that same heart to help yourself please. My heart goes out to you......
Get some help NOW????
thelifeline
July 28, 2007 - 2:24pm
#49
Thats a fine post, BUT I
Thats a fine post, BUT I still think its very irresponsible to tell people that your tolerance will stay even after a long period of no opiates. To go from taking nothing, to taking 250mg Oxycodone will could likely result in death or serious injury in someone that is opiate naive or has no tolerance built up over time. When you are talking about surgery or someone with extreme amounts of acute pain, thats a totally different situation than someone taking 250mg Oxycodone to get high.
July 28, 2007 - 2:40pm
#50
hey austin, if you would
hey austin, if you would like some true suggestions or advice to your problem, you should start a new thread with this information instead of just tacking it on to the bottom of another. I'll be looking for your new thread...
I'm a social worker, not a medical professional. All comments and thoughts are simply my opinion and experience.
Most people who arent prescribed Hydrocodone containing products, and a lot who are, will mistakenly call any combo that contains 10mg Hydrocodone "the 1000mg ones". Just like the ones that contain 7.5mg Hydrocodone they will call them "the 750mg ones", and the 5mg ones will be called "500mg ones". I think most people just get confused and refer to them by the amount of acetaminophen in them, and think that 1000mg acetaminophen is the next higher dose, but no preperations contain that amount. About his liver, unless hes a heavy drinker, he would have to be taking a lot more than the 4000mg a day suggested intake of acetaminophen for an extended period of time before damage would occur. Unless his liver is already compromised from a preexisting condition. Anyway you look at it, hes not Rx'd these so you should be asking questions about rehab,detox, and therapy in my opinion.