January 18, 2008 - 11:53pm
First let me start off by saying hello to everyone ecspecially the top posters of this great resourse we call pharmer.org. I havent been to this website in a long time and miss the active forums and interesting discussions that happen here on the daily but I am not here to boast about my experiences here or to I.D. medications I am here for some help. For the people who dont know me I am a chronic pain patient due to multiple car accidents and have been on narcotics for a little over two years now and not from street dealers from doctors specifically my pain management doctors who currently have me on 20mg Oxycontin plus 10mg Oxycontin plus 180 10/325 percocet per month. Now the Oxycontin is prescribed as usual meaning 60 tabs for each dose so of couse two tablests each per day and if you break the percocet to dosages I take about six per day for breakthrough pain. Now my question is what would be the best method for weaning me off these medications slowly but surely. A IME has been done on me and the doctor that the insurance paid said I SHOULD be off these medications within six months the key word being SHOULD! I am dedicated to trying to get off these meds but if I cant seem to get my head around a sufficent method of doing so. I think the best method for me would be to cut 5mg every two weeks both to diminish the withdrawls and keep a progressive mindstate well doing so. Any suggestions, proffesional opinions and or comments are welcome im just an old poster in need. Please check my track record on here to get some background info and to see just how many people I have helped its just that now im the one in need of HELP...!
Thx
DPP
January 19, 2008 - 1:56pm
#2
I was a social worker for
I was a social worker for quite a few years involved in the medical field, now I am on the other side of the fence as a chronic pain sufferer. When first working in the social work field the first thing I saw was how each person reacted to weening of narcotics differently. Some did it quite easier than others and a bit quicker,on the other hand some had a terrible time taking many times longer and reacted with terrible withdrawls symtoms, some not being able to accomplish it at all. I have to say that at the start of this job I was told by peers how this would work and they had it correct. I can only say what I observed and hopefully the one's who are voluntarily weening themselves off deserve more credit than some probably get from family and freinds.Understanding family members and friends do make a big difference. Best of luck
January 19, 2008 - 8:42pm
#3
Thanks for the replies...
Thanks for the replies... ;-) anyone have any other comments and or suggestions The comments expressed by me on this forum are opinions and should not be perceived as recommendations or advice. Medical professionals are at best your main resource for anything medical.
January 23, 2008 - 5:43pm
#4
Da Purdue, I don't need to
Da Purdue, I don't need to read your old posts to know you have been a good poster on here. I have seen many threads and comments from you that have been beneficial to others, so it is nice to be able to offer some to you.
One of the first things I always make sure people realize when they are trying to ween off narcotics is that weening is solely to get your body off the narcotics with as minimum withdraws as possible. This means that you should not be getting that "nice" feeling from the meds anymore. You are no longer taking them for that relief you need, but instead only to keep from getting sick until you train your body.
If you are still getting a high or buzz from the meds then you are taking too much. Do not expect to get any kind of feeling from your meds anymore. The only feeling you should have is not being sick. Take as minimum as you can without going into actual withdraw. Now, on to a plan...
While one person suggested you have a variety of doses to work with and that you can break your pills, please do not listen to that advice. Oxycontin is an ER med and is not to be broken in any way. You must take the oxycontin full but you CAN split the regular IR oxycodone 10/325 pills.
I think six months is more than enough time for you to easily ween yourself off with no symptoms of withdraw, I would say you could do it in less than half the time. You have two different meds to get off of here; ER oxycontin and IR oxycodone. I think the first one you should concentrate on is lowering the oxycontin. You can't break these up so you will have to start with lowering by 10mg of oxycontin.
Your schedule right now is 30mg oxycontin (ER) in AM, 30mg oxycontin (ER) in PM, and 1 10/325 oxycodone (IR) 6x/day, correct?
Here is what I suggest:
1st week: 30mg oxy ER in AM, 30mg oxy ER in PM, 1 oxy IR 6x/day.
2nd week: 30mg oxy ER in AM, 20mg oxy ER in PM, 1 oxy IR 6x/day.
3rd week: 20mg oxy ER in AM, 20mg oxy ER in PM, 1 oxy IR 6x/day.
4th week: 20mg oxy ER in AM, 20mg oxy ER in PM, 1 oxy IR 5x/day.
5th week: 20mg oxy ER in AM, 10mg oxy ER in PM, 1 oxy IR 5x/day.
6th week: 10mg oxy ER in AM, 10mg oxy ER in PM, 1 oxy IR 5x/day.
7th week: 10mg oxy ER in AM, 1 oxy IR 5x/day.
8th week: 10mg oxy ER in AM, 1 oxy IR 4xday.
9th week: 1 oxy IR 4x/day.
10th week: 1 oxy IR 3x/day.
11th week: 1 oxy IR 2x/day.
12th week: 1 oxy IR 1x/day.
13th week: 0 meds- successfully weened off!
Of course you can switch these numbers or weeks around a little, or if needed lower your IR by 5mg weekly instead of 10mg weekly. Anyway, this is just an example of a schedule you could use. I hope it helps, and good luck! Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help and don't be afraid to ask me any questions.
I'm a social worker, not a medical professional. All comments and thoughts are simply my opinion and experience.
January 23, 2008 - 11:39pm
#5
weaning off of pain meds
I am both a doctor and an addict. I think you should try Suboxone to get off the opiates. It's never a good idea to use your drug(s) of choice to detox. It will never work. If u never heard of Suboxone, it is a drug used to block opiate withdrawals and is prescibed by MDs in their offices, not like methadone where you have to go to a clinic everyday! It blocks the symptoms, and does not give any euphoria or high, so u feel "normal". There is a website that lists all the doctors in your area that prescibe Suboxone. Google SAMSHA (that's an international agency that deals with substance abuse issues) when u find that site search for Suboxone providers in your area. You will go to a private doctor's pffice and they will start you on the drug. It blocks w/drawals from opiates so u can feel normal and go on with your daily life. You can either stay on it for as long as you want / need or wean off at your own pace. It's an awsome drug - I have prescibed it to many patients and it saved their lives and I myself are on it now and is helping me to get my life back together.
January 29, 2008 - 6:35am
#6
weaning off OxyContin and Percocet
Tapering is doable. Use the secheule that was posted a few posts earlier.
I myself, tapered off of OxyContin at the end of December. I was only taking about 50 mgs daily and was on it for only 5 months. I started by cutting down to 45 mgs and then cut my dose by 10 mgs every three days or so. I also had some IR 5 mg tablets to drop by 5 mgs if I felt 10 was too much. I went a bit too fast and did have some physical withdrawal symptoms but they were minor. I didn't get the runs and my bones didn't get too cold feeling. I did have trouble sitting still for about 3 days. The hard part for me was the mental part. I had bad insomnia for about 10 straight days. At the end of the 10 days I slept a good 12 hours. I also felt mentally stressed. Keep in mind that I tapered too fast. If I had taken longer it would have been a bit better.
Keep a record of each dose. What day, time of day etc. Never back track. Once you drop the dose say goodbye to that dosage level. I finished my taper in 2 weeks (too fast but it did make the withdrawals not as bad as they could have been). At 15 mgs I jumped off and was feeling my old self in a little less than 2 weeks. I'm now 29 days free of Oxy.
Good luck. I this helps.
January 29, 2008 - 2:50pm
#7
JS57 I have to say your
JS57 I have to say your weening process looks very good. I put that in my favorites file's. I do have chronic pain but I would not mind cutting my daily doses in half. This would work. I think for many it would take this long and it is true that the weening IMO is easier than the mental part. IMO you have to get away from friends that are still using even if it means your own family. I do know some that had family members addicted and I was told that was the hardest part. As they say "Misery loves company" is very true I do use the words IMO a lot and purposley, just to let everyone know that those words are opinions.
January 7, 2009 - 1:09pm
#8
weaning off of Oxycodone
After repeated unsuccessful on-line searches for a weaning schedule to slowly wean myself off of Oxycodone, I would like to thank js57gifts for the schedule he/she provided on this site.
I have been on various pain meds. for two years due to chronic Crohn's disease flair-ups. I finally had surgery three weeks ago and, although I am still in considerable pain, I feel it is now time to get off of this medication. My pain meds. specialist has refused to give me a schedule; he just told me to get down to three, 15 mg. of Oxycodone by the end of this month. I had no idea how to do this. Now I do. Despite my doctor's orders, I will wean at a slower pace so that I may go through as few withdrawal symptoms as possible.
Again, thank you for the schedule you provided. It will be a great help to me in finally being opiod free.
January 19, 2009 - 12:49am
#9
Weaning off these pills
Hello, Im new to this. I broke my jaw about 6 months ago and had 2 surgeries and now a face full of metal. Im on percocet and oxycotin. 5/325 and 20 mg. Im not really addicted but have never taken pills before this and now feel like i have become very dependent on these pills. I have taken more pills in the last 6 months than anyone can imagine. Am i gonna get real sick or is my body gonna freak out when I run out of these final 200 percs and 60 oxys? They gave me so many cause Im moving states and i told my dr I didnt want anymore or have to see another dr. Im just really worried once I run out and have to stop my body is gonna act very weird? Is that true or should i just start slowing down on how many I take and try weaning off of them or whats the best way without feeling horrible?
*edit mod x*
January 19, 2009 - 11:36am
#10
ducati,Think about Suboxone.
ducati,
Think about Suboxone. Best decision I ever made for myself.
KK
January 19, 2009 - 12:34pm
#11
Well i dunno if u have read
Well i dunno if u have read my other thread i made here back in nov 08 where i posted that my pain clinic booted me off of oxycontin 80mg day that i had been on since the late 90,s.
Anyway i was forced to goto a methadone clinic due to severe wd,s.
I mean stopping 80mg of oxy for that long and then the next day you have nothing u better bet on it i had wd,s so the methadone clinic save me arse lol.
They started me on 30mg methadone and when i first took it i wasnt so sure it would help but after about 45mins after the first dose i felt it "work" and all my wd,s stopped totally 110%
..............deleted........................ it has a very very very loooong half life and you wont feel it wearing off for a good 24/36 hrs
After a few days of this dosing i dropped it to 25mg day then a few days later i went to 20mg day for a week and then just stopped and i had absolutly NO wd,s whatsoever!!!
Eeryone i spoke w/at the clinic there said the same thing however those who told me this of course were drug free from a few weeks to months to years and they all said 2 weeks of methdone and yur done w/drugs as long as u dont slip up and go back to using as it only takes one oxy and yur back at it.
I will tell u with ALL honesty that months after u are clean from oxy u will still have the urge to do it again, this is all in your mind and so much so that many times you or should i say your mind will convince your body that it needs oxy again BUT, dont fall for it, just go outside, run,play w/yur dog/cat or something and the do it again thought will go away
(edit mod x)
January 19, 2009 - 3:51pm
#12
What does Suboxone do? Is
What does Suboxone do? Is there a way without having to take anything else? cutting down the dosage. i wanna just stop cold turkey once i run out of these final pills without taking anything else but will that really mess me up? im a full time student and employer so i dont wanna feel bad for however long. and how long will your body feel that way for after quitting? just curious if you might know.
Thanks a lot
January 19, 2009 - 4:30pm
#13
Here's a suggestion
Try this:
Stay off the 10's within the first month. Within the second month, cut your 20's in half. By the third month, you should be able to cut your percocet's by a quarter. By fourth month, another quarter. Then, I'd take the big boy jump and but the 20's altogether. You would have the full 180 percocet's because your working you own system here, so if you needed to make the full jump back up, you could. But, if you could make it work, begin the full scale with month six being another quarter scale back. By month seven, you could probably kick the percoets, or at least reccommend that your doctor give you something less in the pain relief scale to help you out, say, tramadol.
From personal experience, I've been able to kick Oxycodone 15 mg without any scale back. I've also been able to kick the following cold turkey: Tramadol, Ultram ER 300, Fetanyl patches (100 mcg), Lyrica, and a couple others. What I think is always the best thing, especially after years of narcotic use is to have the wean go forth, but at the last moment, make a total switch, lets say to a tramadol, or even hydrocodone, to help with the pain of WDs. This has always kept me from hitting rock bottom. Those instances I mentioned above were done flat out cold turkey. But there have been a numerous amount of times where a simple switch to a different med kept me from having to face those dreaded week long bed stays.
I am going through WDs as we speak. Kicking what I'm taking to find the cause of an issue and get on a new path to pain management. Pyschology might have to play a refound part in this new path. You might want to explore that route as well, especially since you've gotten the six month mind frame as kind of a hard thing to grasp. Good Luck.
January 19, 2009 - 7:55pm
#14
Suboxone vs cold turkey
Ducati,suboxone is an opiate antagonist,basically meaning that it's an opiate medication that blocks/fills your opiate receptors of your brain,thus reducing/eliminating cravings& withdrawl..Chances are the Dr would start you off with an induction dose @ 16 mgs (2 pills)..Chances are they'll either give you a 1-2 week Rx after your first visit as they wanna monitor you.Be prepared to give a specimen as 1st visit they'll make sure you're on opiates.2nd visit if they test it to see you're urine free.There are some quacks out there that don't give UA's,will have you go in every week @ $100 + a visit,or just don't care.I used heroin & any opiate i could for 14+ years,and i got 5 months under my belt using suboxone.I'd say tell your Dr that you're looking to get through withdrawl,and a wanna take "subs" for a relatively short amount of time.most will accomodate your wishes,and may try to push for a maintaince period(which can last a while).They say the longer youre on the better off you are,but if you wanna on/off i know people who have gotten a week rx (14-16) and break it down so you're through w/d's day 1=2subs,day2=2subs,day3=1 1/2,day4 =1 1/2 ,day5,6,7 take 1,day8,9 take 1/2 then when you got 2 pills left use 1/4 pill daily til gone..the w/d's are very mild,though you remain "fiend out" after prolonged opiate use it takes quite some time to "normal up"..expect sleeplessness,anxiety,sweats,aches etc. though nowhere near as bad as a "cold turkey" detox trust meI've done more than a few,but i'm not taking off my socks to count em.My advice would be try a 3 month program taking suboxone,I'm probably a lifer though I'm gonna try n get off subs after i get off probation in 2-4 years(my sentence was 4yrs,though all paperworks comin up 2)..6 months of pills is a rough detox,you'll probably feel like living death for @ 5 days,then the "fiend out" will probably hang on for 1 1/2 months(always heard divide time on by 4 dunno how true it is and i'm sure theres a "ceiling effect"or I'd be looking @ 3 1/2 yrs).Cold turkey route i advise juice(gallons) and crackers(saltines,not very buttery)..drink all you can,I say juice as it has caloric value and you need fuel,it encourages urinating which helps the drugs get outta your system.find somewhere "comfy"(comfortable will not happen,liveable at best,i say somewhere comfy like away from people,where you feel good normally,you don't want anyone near you as you'll be more emotional than you've been in your life very upsy downsy,,crying,miserable,depressed etc,every bad emotion there is will flow like a freeway through your head.find some sleep aid that works,you'll wanna sleep as much as you can,as its time you're not awake,and time is the only thing gonna getcha better too.immodium helps,if you can keep it down,oh & the juice,not orange juice..sounds good but it's not,too thick,pulpy and acidic..orange puke in essence...I AM NOT trying to scare you onto suboxone,look up opiate detox,it'll sound more pleasant at web md,they'll list symptoms without the graphic imagery..I do recommend cold turkey vs rehab.tried it 2 times,lasted 1 & 2 days respectively(1 in 96,1 in 08)..whichever route you opt for i truly do wish you luck,as opiates can be the demon that'll try to destroy you,but theyre just so #%^*! good & are often needed in life...Good luck
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February 18, 2009 - 8:51pm
#15
scared
ok so I had surgery on my shoulder about a month ago. Dr. put me on 5mg percocet. I ran out on sunday and monday they were closed b/c of the holiday. I had withdrawal symptoms that were very uncomfortable. I refilled my script and now I have about 80 pills left. I know that this may seem minor in comparison to some of the above posts. And believe me I wish you all luck with your struggles. I want to start weening myself off these things asap!! I don't wanna feel like i did on monday! Can i do it with the pills I have left.
Right now I take 2 in the morning and 2 in the pm. Should I just start taking 1 in the am and 1 in the pm.. or should it be more drawn out than that... I feel helpless because I am ignorant to this addiction. please any advice would be great! thanks and godbless
February 26, 2009 - 6:44pm
#16
HELP me please want off these pain pills from accident.......
Broke my back 1/27 and was on 2 5mg perc's round the clock for 2wks. Tried fentanyl- made me feel awful. Decided enuf of this pain medications and went off. BIG mistake- full blown with drawl. Yesterday dr. said try Oxycontin 20mg=24hr release. Today sick to my stomach. I want the old pain back and I want OFF these drugs. I want to use percocets like 4 a day cut in halfs until I'm weaned off. I'll take Motrin and if i suffer too bad for me. But I do not want these pills. I need to know how to pace myself getting off. Its only been 5 sinking weeksusing pain meds and now Im in some mess. Will someone give me a time line on how to do this- I am not doing well dealing w/ this myself???. Obviously stopping all meds was the stupidest thing but i didnt know any better.
(Please do not put your email addresses in posts - admin)
February 26, 2009 - 6:45pm
#17
me too
I'm in the same situation and Im scared....................
February 27, 2009 - 6:23pm
#18
what i did was reduced my
what i did was reduced my dosage by one pill per day and stayed like that for a couple days... then reduced it again. now i take about one a day or when I really need it, like after physical therapy. Now I feel normal again. I agree that the WD's are the worst! Good luck!
February 27, 2009 - 8:03pm
#19
Buprenorphine
hi,
If you are at 30mg oxycodone a day you could switch to buprenorphine, it will prevent any withdrawals and binds to proteins in the body and sticks to them for quite a lg time , so it has a long duration of action ( up to 3 days ) but you will probably be prescribed it daily and work out a system of titration yourself, it is not a full opiod agonist ( even though it's quite potent ) so it makes a good opiate to use for detoxification. When you get to a low dose of buprenorphine ( temgesic ) you could ( on your doctor'sadvice switch to dihydrocodiene120 mgs bid - 90 mgs -( 60 -30mgs a day) ( a mild opiate ) and then maybe codiene phosphate 60mg bid, 50, 40 ,30 , 10 , 5,mgsbid to once daily. I suppose you may need to work somethig out with your doctor , but this is oe suggestion that worked very well with no significant wdrawl syptoms. Good Luck.
April 29, 2009 - 10:38pm
#20
Opiod Withdrawl
The above system mentioned by the social worker is actually very good and accurate, however is def prolonged and you should be able to do it much quicker than that. Before becoming a nurse I was mself very addicted to opiods. At the height of my addication I took over 100 percocets daily for over a 6 month period. I was able to quit cold turkey with the physical symtoms relenting in about 72 hours. Be careful, and hopefully discouraged!, with replacing your current opiods with anything such as tramadol, hydrocodone, methadone, etc as you are just replacing one addiction with another. Suboxone is a very good drug and excellent choice but not always required. You should work closely with an MD to discuss and create a plan and then stick faithfully to it to accomplish your goal. I would, however, warn you about trying to do this with so many pills on hand, because as it has been mentioned in this thread, taking "just one more" pill to help curb the effects of any undesired WD symptom will just start the cycle all over again.
Dealing with the mental cravings is the most difficult part. The suggestion of doing something active to get your mind off the mental urge to take more is very effective and will in many instances completely erase any desire to take more opiods. Work hard and stick to a solid plan and you will be fine. Do not allow your mind to increase the difficulty of weaning yourself off because you will, if allowed, make it much more difficult mentally than it needs to be. Try and stay as active as possible throughout and you will find it to be a big help. If you just sit around and think about it, it will indeed be twice as difficult. Getting off opiods is a GREAT thing, whether used for a legit purpose or not. And IF you were/are experiancing legit pain it will also be easiar as we have learned the body reacts differently to opiods used for an actual pain than when used otherwise. The best advice is to never take enogh to feel any effect at all from the medication. If you are, then you are taking too much when trying to get off the medicine.
THe longest lingering effects will undoubtebly by anorexia, restlesness, and irritability. The loose stools should subside quickly once your gut has a chance to begin functioning normally and the natural rythym of peristalsis in your colon has had a chance to normalize. Be wary of taking too much of an anti-diarheal medicine as this will only prolong that unpleasant effect.
Suboxone would be the only replacement tx that I would reccomend if you are trying to "replace" it with something else. In my experiance, both personally and by witnessing patients go through the process, as quickly as you can tolerate it the better. The goal is set and getting to it is better done quickly as to not allow your body to continue getting used to a constant supply of opiates. Mild discomfort from WD is a very tolerable thing when you really desire to be done with the meds for good. However, do not deprive yourself from legit pain control if you are still experiancing pain from your injury, this will only make the process more difficult.
My very best to you as you begin! Do not deal with unsympathetic MD's during this process as their negative attitude will only hinder the process. In the end, you were prescribed these medications legally and for a legit purpose, and should be given the same support getting off the meds as you were while being treated for chronic pain! Best of luck! And remember, any negative effect will eventually subside and you will once again feel "normal."
You have such a good variety of strengths. You have 20mg, 10mg, and 5mg if your break the percocets in half. Since you have such a variety to work with, the best way to do it would be to experiment a little bit each day until you are comfortable. Most people usually try to taper either every few days or every week. Once every 2 weeks gives your body time to taper but it gets comfortable with the "new" Rx cycle, which makes it harder to taper when the next 2 weeks rolls around. There are also 10 day Suboxone tapers for people that dont need lifetime treatment. I wouldnt go this route unless you can afford it, and you fail at tapering yourself. You can also ask your doctor or the insurance doctor what the plan of action should be to get you off in 6 months time with minimal side effects. Hopefully atleast one of them has a plan set up that will cause you little to no withdrawal symptoms. I have heard of other people just being "cut off" because normally "you cant die from opiate/opioid withdrawals". Best bet, ask them there plan before you start worrying and experimenting. One last thing remember the medication Lomotil. Its an RX anti-diarrheal drug. This is one of the major withdrawal symptoms that people hate. If it gets bad when you start cutting back dont be afraid to ask the doctor for it.