November 15, 2009 - 5:07am
I was put on Ox's about 2 years ago starting at 10mg's twice a day for chronic pain managment. I have been told that there is no help for my pain, I have had surgeries and lifts, tons of x-rays and have pretty much accepted my fate for that factor. I took the oxy's kind of blind you could say but I also blame my Dr to some sort for not really letting me know what I was really getting into here!
Here I am now, on 40mg's 3x's a day with per 10's twice a day for breakthrough pain. Well people, I have decided enough is enough when that dosage right there doesnt really help the pain anymore! I mean really, how high can I go? The amount of pain meds Im taking is worse for me in the long run then the pain will ever be!
Anyways, I have decided to try to ween myself off. I never really followed a strict pill protocol! If I hurt really bad, I would take one more, If I had a relaxed day at work, I wouldnt take one at night. Well, I have picked up a landscaping job to help bring in some income during these herendous times we all are having right now and have been working 12-14 hours a day 6/7 days a week and my knees and back are just trash. It is really easy to " just take another pill"! I have gound myself on some days taking as much as 250mg's of oxcy's! I am seriously lucky Im not dead from them! I would take so much that I would notice severe breathing issues while trying to sleep! I know, TOTALLY CARELESS AND STUPID!!!!
I have decided to try to bring myself to 60mg's right off the bat! I went about 4 days 3 months ago with nothing and felt horrible and think that maybe cutting in half or a third rather then just completly out will make things slightly better. I really felt like I was going to die!
If anyone has any objections this, please throw them out there! I have read A LOT of the other post about this and have seen the weening process broken down into months but my issue is, I dont think that I have months left to ABUSE these drugs! If I dont get off soon, Im going to kill myself from taking to much! I am a father and a devoted husband and want to be myself again not controlled by this medicene.
Tonight is my first day trying to ween off, I took a 40mg pill at approx. 8:30pm and havent taken anything since. I am starting to feel pretty bad! Stomach, mind games and sweats are starting. I am planning on taking a 20mg pill at around 7am to see if I can go almost 12 hours like they are suppossed to last with the timed release. I know that my body is so used to getting some every 4 hours or so it is going to be rough. Please post all thoughts.
Thanks for your help, it is highly appreciated!
Drew
November 15, 2009 - 8:16am
#2
Very nice Oneir
Oneir, that is one well thought out, helpful, intelligent post. Nice work bro!
Drew, I would take Oneir's advice and look into the fentanyl patch. Its 3 days of medication in one patch so you cant just simply give yourself a little extra dose on a bad day like you can with pills. This could be the answer for you, and death being a probable result of trying to abuse the patch in anyway like sticking on an extra patch, should be a big enough detourant. There is pain relief without any heavy euphoria, and essentially you would be feeling like your normal self. There are a variety of medications that can be used with the patch, but I think Opana IR might be the best bet for you. Opana seems to be like fentanyl in that it produces less euphoria than oxycodone. If you have a legitamit need for pain control, there is no sense in living in pain. You'll be miserable and possibly extremely irratable. I know that when I am hurting a lot there are times when people dont want to be around me, so its not good for your family.
There is also methadone which many people find great pain relief in. Whats great about it is its long half life, and it could control your pain, as well as those psychological cravings for oxycodone. The best thing you can do when you find yourself starting to think about abusing your pain meds is to get your mind on something else immediately. Go for a walk, jog, listen to music, cook, go for a drive, take a nice hot shower, get intimate with your wife, play with your kid. Give your meds to your wife and have her administer your dose. After you have taken a dose and you feel fine, give her all your meds to hide with strict instructions to only give you the exact amount per day that you are supposed to take, or unless you want her to give you each dose. Tell her under no circumstances is she to give you extra, no matter how much you beg, cry or seem to be in horrific pain. If you are determined to not be on any pain meds despite your pain, then this will also work to make sure you taper successfully.
Good luck to you Drew, and welcome to Pharmer, Im sure many others will give some input and/or support.
Mr.B
November 15, 2009 - 10:37am
#3
Drew,I was on the Fentanyl
Drew,
I was on the Fentanyl Patch for years and it worked great. I would consider forgetting the OxyContin and going for the Patch. Obviously you are going to need something for pain. Ask your doc and see what they say. I commend you for trying to wean yourself and seeing a problem starting. I have been off of all meds since Aug 2008. My pain is horrible (especially with the cold) but I cannot go back to where I was because I will either end up dead or in jail.
Good luck and keep us posted!
KK
November 15, 2009 - 11:23pm
#4
To much to quick
I wasnt sure if it was my mind or my body at that time, the mindgames had already started. I feel as if I dont take a pill at a certain time, Im going to get sick. I shouldh have given more background last night and I have some time now at work so I thought Id throw it out thre. I know that I am getting the point where 40mg's 3x' a day just isnt cutting it. The DR just wants to keep upping the script so I just started to up it on my own when needed. Next thing you know, Im like a lot of others, trying to figure out how Im going to get my next refil since its been less then 21 days that my insurance requires to pay the refill.
Background on the pain, I was in the marines for 7 years and had a couple of issues. One, my arches fell straight out of the bottem of my feet. I had a partial release on my left foot and the relief was null. They said there is no reason to do the other foot since the result would likely be the same. Also, my right hip fell just under an inch. I know an inch isnt much but after a 12 hour day standing or cutting or whatever, my back is trashed and my hips are killing me!!! The final problem, my knees! Every man in my family has had knee problems, agian, just pain after a long day but nothing compared to my feet, ankles and hips/back!
To be 100% with you guys, my first reason I even though about coming off was when I forgot to bring my meds with me to a wedding out of state and had none for 2 days. You all know or can figure out how " fantastic " of a time my wife and I had! Yuck, it was horrible! At that point I realized that I had lost control, not a great feeling. Since then, I am always worried about missing a dose or forgetting my pills, it seems like my pills are more important my family or anything. I am just so scared that I am at the losing end here. I have expressed my concearn to my Dr and he said you are either going to be in pain or on meds, thats the final line. My wife and I spoke for awhile today, I actually walked in the house from work crying cause it was now 7:30am and Hadnt had anything since 8:30 and I just felt like &*&? and like a failure and garbage and everything else horrible in the world. So, we agreed that coming from 150-200 a day to 60 was way to big of a reduction in one day. I am now back to the 3x40 and 2x10 to establish a baseline per suggested as this is my prescribed dosing schedule. My wife has the meds locked in a safe with both keys and will distribute the meds per dosing schedule. Please dont get me mistaken, I still want to regain control and maybe just take as needed VS on a permant schedule? Any thoughts on that? Is that possible after hitting a wall like this?
Oh, just so you know, I have been diagnosed with PTSD from my tour in Iraq and suffer depression and EXTREME Anxiety when faced with situations out of the norm. So, I am on a dose of Zanax for sleeping and social anxiety. Low dose, .25 but I do have 1mg for situations when I feel I am loosing control. I have my first " Mental Health " appointment on the 10 of december so hopefully I can begin to get that part of my life back together. I am really tough on myself and it has only gotten worse with the PTSD/PTWS! Will a soboxen treatment interfere with Zanax?
Thanks for the help and words of encouragement!
Drew
November 16, 2009 - 3:39pm
#5
Oxycontin is for those who
Oxycontin is for those who need 24 hour pain relief, not as needed medicine. Tolerance will happen with pain meds. I think you need to wait until your Dec. 10 appt before making any changes in pain meds. For me, having control of my life includes having to take pain meds to help control my pain. The last thing I will say, if you go to the dr and take a drug screen and too little/too much shows/doesn't show up you could be discharged. Take care, htmom
I agree with Ray on his post below. I'm on Fentanyl Transdermal Patch also. I have noticed that I'm not needing to go up in doses all the time. I stayed at 50 mcgs for 2 years and could have stayed at that dose for a few more years. Good luck, htmom
November 16, 2009 - 2:53pm
#6
Revodrew
You should def. consider trying the Fentanyl patch. It is the most potent pain med on the market and it works wonders. You only have to change it every 3 days. There is no more just taking another pill, as it will control your pain like you never though something could. You'll still probably have to take something like hydrocodone or oxycodone for breakthrough pain, but it will be signifigantly less pills than you're taking now. This drug has changed my life. I'm sure if you read some other posts about fentanyl and talk to some other member of the "FTD"(Fentanyl Trandsermal) club you'll see the light. Good luck my friend and go see that doctor about the patch...Ray
November 16, 2009 - 7:44pm
#7
Wow
This all seems like a miracle at this point. I am going to have to bring this up with my DR. I have an appointment at the VA on the 10th, Im going to see what they have to say but they are very " stingy " about real pain meds instead of 800mgs of motrin like they had me on for 4 years! Nuts!
November 16, 2009 - 7:46pm
#8
Changing over?
Will I suffer withdrawls going from Oxycontin to the Patch? If im taking 120mgs of oxycontin and 20 mgs of Percs, what dose would be legit to request or ask my DR for? I think the patch would help with the mental side of the "addiction" also which would be an awesome beginning and the fact of 3 days would be super and would break my pill taking cycle so to speak. Thanks for the info folks, I really appreciate it!
November 16, 2009 - 8:19pm
#9
The dose of oxycodone you are
The dose of oxycodone you are on should be equal to the 75mcg/hr fentanyl transdermal patch.
November 17, 2009 - 9:34pm
#10
Approaching Dr to switch to the patch
How do you recomend that I aproach my DR about switching to the patch VS the pills? My honest reason would first and foremost to pretty much take anyway to take " that extra pill " or abusing the drug period, help to break the psychological part of it ( Im so used to taking pills at this point, it is part of my daily routine just like brushing teeth or taking a shower ). I think if I go on this patch, my best bet would to stay on it instead of coming off of everything and suffering from the pain that originally sent me looking for a more serious Pain killer. I really wanted to come off of the pills due to myself feeling as if I was getting more then just " dependant " upon the oxycontin. I really do need to have some sort of painkiller in my life but I saw myself becoming psychological dependant as well as physically.
Should I go on the patch, how is the process of coming off of the patch in comparison to coming off of oxyconting and percocets?
Thanks guys, you have all been of an amazing amount of help! Thanks guys/gals!
November 17, 2009 - 11:46pm
#11
Most people who switch only
Most people who switch only have minor withdrawal effects (if any at all) between their last dose of the oxy and the time their first patch becomes effective. There are some doctors who would much prefer to prescribe the patches but ofcourse there are some who are opposed to it. If I were in your shoes I would continue to stick very closely to your prescribed regiment until your next appointment. Tell your doctor you are concerned about falling into "more than dependency" as you put it. Mention to him that you have heard about "some type of pain medication that comes in the form of patches you change every few days". Some doctors are weary when you a patient comes in requesting a drug by name. Others feel like they become nothing more than a script author when patients can influence their prescribing behavior. Your doc maybe different but its best to play it safe. I admire your willingness to be proactive about potential drug abuse and nip this thing in the bud.
Keep us posted...
By the way, cherish your wife during this time. Her support can make or break you...
November 18, 2009 - 10:50am
#12
Wife
My wife has been OUTSTANDING so far and always in the past! She has always been awesome! She has taken the meds and locked them in the safe and has the two keys hidden and has changed the code on the safe that would be the only other way to get into it. Of course this was something tha we have talked about doing and we both know that this is going to have to be something that requires teamwork and not just me or her on our own trying to change this.
I will mention the patch to my DR, he has never brought it up to me before so Im not sure his take on it. Thanks agian
November 18, 2009 - 3:32pm
#13
I know I'm going to become
I know I'm going to become cannon fodder for this one, but not not everyone is a cantidate for the patch. It seems that a few people on this board give posters the impression you just walk in to see your doctor and demand a Fentanyl patch because you've become tired of taking percocet 3-4 times/ day.
It is clearly stated in the medical literature that fentanyl should be used as one of the last resorts. Some forms are ONLY used in cancer pain. You have a "bad back." Not to trivialize your condition, but please give this some thought from the other end.
Unless your current therapy is failing you, a dose increase of your current medication is not inappropriate. Bear in mind that many people on fentanyl still take oxycodone for breakthrough pain. Don't bite off more than you can chew.
Also, fentanyl has just as much abuse potential as many other narcotic medications, and the withdrawal symptoms are similar.
November 18, 2009 - 11:32am
#14
i totally
agree with you saturated.
November 18, 2009 - 11:48am
#15
I have to ask if the VA has
I have to ask if the VA has had orthotics made for your feet? The reason I ask is if you had one arch fixed (even though it didn't fully relieve the pain) I'm assuming the "released" you"re talking about is having the arch lifted, that would bring your height back up on that side. This would leave your height lower on the side that was not fixed resulting in appearing that your hip was lower or your back has curved. Now what you are talking about will absolutely cause pain from "adjusting" your posture, gait, ect. in your hip, back, knee and even on the opposite side of your body. It's caused by compensating for the original cause. Orthotics can bring you back in balance without surgery and you may find a huge reduction in your pain level.
I have had bones "fall" in both my feet. most recently the third metatarsal in my left foot. it is very painful, and you alter your entire body weight to avoid to much pressure on the painful foot area. This causes so much pain elsewhere that you forget it's actually your foot causing it all. I have multiple health conditions so I avoid surgery as much as possible (I've already had 16 and I'm only 38) but did have my right foot and ankle done twice but the bone has fallen again(4th meta. in the right) and my toes have twisted and hammered again even though the joint capsule was removed and fused last time. Anyways, orthotics have proved to help aleviate some of my pain.
The only problem is they are very expensive and some insurances don't cover them. I have fabulous ins. and they still cost me $200.00 a pair every time I have them made which is turning into every year now as my conditions progress. Just a sugestion and just my opinion but from my experience, ALOT of your pain could be coming from your feet, just indirectly. I think you need to see a Ortho. MD. with a foot spec. or a Podiatrist (foot and Ankle only MD) because you bear all your body weight on your feet, until you adress the actual problem, the pain will continue to increase especially if you gain weight or are on your feet alot and you will never ever "control the pain". IMHO
November 18, 2009 - 3:34pm
#16
goat
Finally, some common ground.
November 18, 2009 - 8:01pm
#17
Saturated is right, I have
Saturated is right, I have taken Roxicodone for BTP when I didnt have Actiq. Sat also hit a good point in that the patch is not something to consider simply because you are tired of taking pills either. I have been on FTD and still was taking: Roxicodone, Colace, Motrin, Soma, Neurontin etc., being rx'ed the patch doesnt mean you'll never take another pill again. This is something I have forgotten to include in some of my FTD recommending posts. It is nice to take less pills, but I think some get the impression that they will require no pills at all.
Now although Sat and I have agreed to disagree on FTD being the last resort, it is a serious medication that has risks which must not be taken lightly. Especially if you have a child, there are many precautions; you wouldnt believe the way I handle fentanyl medications since I have a son. You would think I was guarding government secrets or something. It seems like doctors are really for it or against it from the feedback I have seen so its a gamble on how the doc will respond.
I used to think FTD was one the least abused medications out there, I couldnt think of a possible way to abuse it until I was surfing through bluelight, a completely disgusting site, just to check it out after seeing references to it on pharmer. I was apalled at what some people will do to get high, and you would be shocked to see how many people think that their drug abuse is ok because their supply is prescribed. You would also be shocked to read about how many idiots on that site have almost died because of their irresponsible actions. Its a good thing that my computer skills do not reach the point of serious hacking because I cant say that I wouldnt take down bluelight with a DOS attack. Then again, all the junkies would just find somewhere else to gather.
B
November 18, 2009 - 7:06pm
#18
consider this
Hi. I am jumping in to offer my two cents because I feel optimistic about my pain management for the first time in five years. I have severe chronic headaches. For the past five years I have taken Vicodin, Oxycodone, and Actiq (fentynal lollipops). I frequently had to go to the doctor or ER to get shots of Demerol or Dilaudid. I used 90 fentynal lolipops a month just to get by. I felt like my situation was hopeless. This week I saw a specialist and he perscribed Suboxone for pain management (NOT for addiction). He told me not to be alarmed if I looked on the internet and saw that it was for addiction. He said he was perscribing it for pain management. The day after seeing this doctor I woke up with one of the worst migraines of my life. I took 1/2 of the first pill I supposed to take. It soon knocked my headache completely out! I've never had a pill do that before. I have been on this medication for about a week now with no headaches. I couldn't even go a week with no headaches while using fentynal. To me this seems like a miracle drug. Read about it on the internet. I found that quite useful. I looked up both Suboxone and Suboxone for Pain Managment. Good Luck!
November 18, 2009 - 8:52pm
#19
Hey B,My warning with the
Hey B,
My warning with the patches for you, since your son is so young, is to never hold him without a shirt on!!! Not sure where you wear your patches but we all know how easy the corners fold up and with the heat and baby fat they have at that age, I'm afraid it would take almost no time for his skin to absorb some of the med. I could be being over parinoid, it happens sometimes LOL, but my MD did tell me about another patient who had a baby and wore her patches on her stomach cause they stuck better for her there. Baby had a fever and Mom was holding her. Turns out a very small part of the corner was turned up and next to the babys skin long enough to land baby in the hospital for 2 days. Took them forever to figure out what was wrong, kept thinking side effects of flu until more blood work came back.
He said he never would of thought of warning PT's about that until it happened, now he adds it to all his speeches for anyone considering going on the patch. She was lucky the baby survived with no permenant damage that they know of.
Anyways, just something to think about and be wary of.
November 18, 2009 - 9:41pm
#20
Oh dont worry A mom, but
Oh dont worry A mom, but thanks for your concern. When I lay with my son while on FTD, I always have a shirt on that is tucked well into my short/pants. I used to shower with my son, every shower of his was with me until a he started getting too heavy and I had to get him used to standing by himself or sitting alone in the shower or bath. My son is my life, and I would give mine to save his in a heart beat. Amazing how your life changes when you have a child. I had just switched from OC to FTD and went to take a shower with him and was stumped on what to do. Great thing was that his Bumbo chair was all rubber and water proof. I plopped him in the Bumbo chair and he was happy as long as he was sprayed every few minutes. When it was time to get out I would have my wife take him. You are not paranoid, or maybe we both are, but I would rather live paranoid than have his accidental death on my conscience, I probably would not last long if you know what I mean.
When I have to use Actiq I go into the bathroom or my master bedroom where I can close the door and administer my dose. Once I am done I brush my teeth, rinse and gargle repeatedly, even scrubbing my lips. I dont take any chances of looking away with it in my hand and him come out of nowhere like he often does and get it on his skin or in his mouth. I scrub my lips and wash my mouth so there is no chance of me kissing him with fentanyl on my lips.
November 19, 2009 - 12:22am
#21
Good Job Dad!
Good Job Dad!
Hmmm ok...where to start??
There are alot of things to address from your post so I'll try to give you as much input as I can.
First let me say that its admirable that you are initiating the dosage reduction out of concern for your family and personal mental health. Having said that your oxycodone dose is not extremely high. Some patients are prescribed in excess of 1000mgs per day. Regardless its possible that you have reached the limit for how much relief this particular medicine will provide. If your pain is severe and going to be with you for most or all of your life then I would suggest finding another form of relief. Many pain patients sing the praises of fetanyl patches, for example.
I'm not sure if I understood some of your comments about cutting in half or third but when you mention taking a 20mg pill it makes me wonder if you are talking about splitting the continuous release tablets. This is a bad idea because splitting a 40mg whole pill in half doesnt mean you're going to have two 20mg half tablets. One could have all 40mgs in it and the other have none, even if the size and shape are identical. This can create all kinds of trouble...
When it comes to dosage reduction you are going to want to first get into a more consistent pattern of intake. In other words you have to establish what your baseline consumption is. I am in the process of a slow oxycodone taper from about 180mgs per day average. My first reduction I went to 150mgs per day. This was a reduction of about 17%. After about a month I reduced it 120mgs...another month and 90mgs...right now I am at 75mgs but it took 6 weeks to make that reduction. I find that cuts of 10-30% are optimal. So if you go from 140mgs per day to 60mgs you are likely to have withdrawals unless you very carefully space out your doses. For me I've found that I need to take at least 4 doses on an average work day. So when I went from 120mgs (30mgs 4 times per day) to 90mgs, I instead reduced my dosage to 22.5mgs so that I could continue 4 doses per day. Right now I am trying to do 2 doses of 22.5mgs and 2 doses of 15mgs per day. Next month will be 4 doses of 15mgs, hopefully.
Just like it took a while to get up to your dose, it takes a while to de-condition your body's dependence. I know you said you don't have months left to "abuse" this medicine. If it is possible you really should pursue a slow step down regiment under medical supervision. It certainly isn't easy but its probably not as difficult as you might imagine. If abuse is a major concern then you may consider suboxone detox treatment. Google it or search this site for a boatload of information about it.
Hmmm...it says your post was made at 3am. If your last dose was at 830pm thats only 6.5 hours. You really shouldn't be having any noticable withdrawals after taking a 40mg time release tablet. What you are experiencing is likely psychological. I don't know if you smoke but maybe you can relate. When you don't have any cigarettes your cravings are alot stronger. One of the biggest challenges for me in my slow taper process has been breaking the psychological dependence. Consuming pain meds has become part of my daily routine so I have to relearn some new approaches to pain throughout the day etc.
Hope you got something out of my reply, I know it was kind of all over the place...
Best to you