April 1, 2009 - 11:29am
I just got back from my pharmacy and one worker was hard at work making 30 mg oxy capsules, they also contain 1 mg naloxone to prevent abuse..they were using maroon and sky blue capsules for this and the price is 2.50 each..they also were doing 15 mg caps...i will get a pic friday/no markings btw.
April 2, 2009 - 9:55pm
#2
Goat can you please explain to me please
Thats crazy... naloxone is an opiate antagonist, so if they put it in the same capsule as the oxycodone, when you take the capsule wont it just counteract the oxycodone? and what about people who are opioid dependent, naloxone will send them into opioid withdrawal right? idk but that whole capsule thing doesnt sound like such a good idea to me. there has got to be better ways for them to prevent abuse then adding an opiate antagonist. it doesnt make sense to me goat, can you please explain to me more about this please. Thank you
April 2, 2009 - 11:20pm
#3
I agree i seriously doubt
I agree i seriously doubt that is what they are putting in those tablets.
April 2, 2009 - 11:29pm
#4
shroobs, low doses of
shroobs, low doses of naloxone when taken by mouth has no significant effects. They where adding to deter misuse via IV. It should be noted that there are studies be conducted for adding naloxone to pain meds to help with opiate/opioid induced constipation.
RefusePain, even the tablets that are made by the large manufacturing companies add all kinds of inactive ingredients. 30mg of oxycodone is very, very small. Even smaller than a 5mg tablets worth of powder. Most people just assume these are fillers they add which serve no purpose. They add these powders (some liquids too, most likely wetting agents) to the mix for all kinds of things like making the tablets not stick to the presses, making them easier to compress, to displace moisture, also some chemicals arent absorbed easily so they attach the active chemical to an inactive that is absorbed easily these are called excipients, and they will add 'fillers' to really potent chemicals that you dont need a lot of to be therapuetic to bulk up the tablets, etc. Its possible that the pharmacy didnt have any caps in the size they needed for the 30mg Oxycodone HCL capsules you got so they just added some extra sugar or lactose to help fill a larger cap out so people dont ask the pharmacist questions like "why isnt the capsule filled up all the way?" "Is there enough medicine in there, they arent filled all the way?". To answer another one of your questions, if the chemical added is serving a medical purpose they have to include it in the ingredients. If the chemical is an inactive ingredient they do not have to list it. Technically if the Naloxone is added as an abuse deterant which is serving an active ingredients purpose it should be listed on the label if it has it in them. It should read Oxycodone HCL 30MG/Naloxone 1MG or something to that effect. Also in order for the Naloxone to be added the doctor would have to write for it to be there, or the pharmacy would have to call and request it be added which can be done even on a CII script.
April 2, 2009 - 11:27pm
#5
Goat's attempt at an April fools joke
Good one. 
I always love me some Narcan along with my high-potency opiates! If this is the case, who gives the pharmacist the authority to formulate in this fashion?
April 2, 2009 - 11:27pm
#6
Has no one here ever heard of
Has no one here ever heard of Talwin NX or Suboxone? I know Suboxone is a little different here since the Naloxone would be absorbed sublingually but in both tablets the Naloxone serves the same purpose, an IV abuse deterant.
April 2, 2009 - 11:29pm
#7
I was teasin'
...but seriously, who gives the authority? Pharmacist can't just mix whatever he wants...
April 3, 2009 - 1:25am
#8
well pharmicist
has to formulate the rx as patented by parent company, i would assume, just like baking a cake he has to add all fillers binders an inative ingredeints an active compund in order for the finished compound to metabolize as the tests that were done when FDA 1st approved formulation, thats a opinion, not the law or by the book
April 6, 2009 - 3:03pm
#9
Quote:...you mentioned they
Quote:
...you mentioned they added something to yours to prevent abuse.. i thought they only did that with Oxycontin ER or ER type meds...[/qoute]
Let's clear this up, eh?? ER OCs DO NOT have this junk, last I researched. Correct?
Thanks
April 6, 2009 - 3:20pm
#10
I have no clue
if it has something in it or not...imo it should. The pill I posted of is real and I posted a blurry pic of it somewhere here...it has what I said and for the reasons Solo pointed out.
The pharmacist was calling drs to ask if he could add naloxone/I overheard him talking with the dr who only wanted .5 mg in it...this is true/ I would not post info I knew was false..I talked with the pharmacist and tech for maybe 20 minutes that day....everyone should have a good relationship with their pharm/ if possible.
April 6, 2009 - 9:43pm
#11
MrGoat
MrGoat (greatestofalltime???), don't take me wrong; I'm not doubting what you (or anyone) said.
Just that Extended Release brand-name (and generic, iirc) Oxycontins don't have this junk; not your posted subject...
Last I researched ER OCs, there was some prelim. talk of adding some deterants, but nothing yet...
Cheers, J5
April 7, 2009 - 4:55pm
#12
To RefusePain;
Does it have any writing on the blue and white capsules?
April 18, 2009 - 3:26pm
#13
i went to my pharmacy to fill
i went to my pharmacy to fill my script and the pharmacist also told me that there oxycodone compounds also had naloxone added.
April 19, 2009 - 8:23am
#14
the medicine shoppe on east
the medicine shoppe on east bay in clearwater FL
April 20, 2009 - 1:44pm
#15
Does the doctor prescribe the Naloxone?
Wouldn't the doctor have to specify the addition of Naloxone for a pharmacist to dispense that. It sounds like a good idea as long as it does NOT reduce the analgesic property of the Oxy.
April 20, 2009 - 2:02pm
#16
the pharmacist
was making phone calls to the drs to see if he could add 1mg nalaxone...i did overhear 1 dr ask for only.5mg to be added.
My guess is that he has made at least 9000 of the 30 mg in the last month..I will check with him in a week.
May 3, 2009 - 3:20pm
#17
wow!
Thats alot of capsules to make. It would be so tedious to have to make them. I couldn't do it.
May 3, 2009 - 3:32pm
#18
DON T UNDERSTAND WHY
IT BE TEDIOUS, HE PLACES X AMOUNT OF EACH INGREDIENT IN MORTAR, GRABS THE PESTLE, GRINDS AN BLENDS, THEN MEASURES EACH AMOUNT OUT JUST LIKE HIS GREAT-GRANDPA USED TO TO, TAKES ABOUT 8 SEC S PER CAPSULE
May 5, 2009 - 11:06am
#19
woodstock
Are you joking? I couldn't tell if you were or not because if you had to do that 9,000 times it would be VERY tedious. Anything you have to do 9,000 times in a relatively short period of time eventually will become tedious.
May 5, 2009 - 11:23am
#20
...total made
on the 30s was 15,000 and 1500 on the 15s..the tech ran out of oxycodone powder and i do not make these figures up.
May 5, 2009 - 11:56pm
#21
There are both table top and
There are both table top and free standing automated machines that pharamcists can use to fill capsules accurately. There are also non automated, that usually hold around 100 capsules, the pharamcist pours out a pile of powder and levels it off over the caps evenly filling each capsule. When using this type of 'jig' its more important to use the right size capsule and filler so you dont over or under fil the caps. Heres an example of a capsule jig:
May 6, 2009 - 12:35am
#22
what s your point
the tech loads the jig the pharmicists fills the capsules an caps them, i m sure there more than 1 jig there 2, in the coalmines we took pride in our ability to hustle, if we had unsupported top, we get the roof supports in as fast as possible thus, the mine was productive an we made money, same theroy here the pharmicist fills caps the tech loads an 100 caps loaded in 5 minutes, now i gonna say that the pharmicist would stop at 500 to 1000 each day or whatever his recipe calls for, for a batch of 100,500 or whatever, i can tell you this my avinza must be loaded by machine they appear to be 1/8 inch below the long capsule line, of course settling can occur
May 6, 2009 - 12:42am
#23
the mom an pop are legal pill pushers
like their counterparts on the street, if there s a dollar to be made, ithey re gonna take 15 minutes to make $8 a pill, an have customer wait on a 60 count hyro
May 6, 2009 - 1:31am
#24
nah wood
my buddy ej,a tech filled all the caps himself...the pharmacist is much to busy doing his thing...this county has around a million people here as it is a retirement haven..trust me he's too busy to help //the tech worked about 3 days/probably .i myself value the info solo posted as i could not look at the setup very close, i do know his setup was not so large...we as a group of Pharmer posters should not shun info such as solo posted, it was worthy as it pertains very much to the subject . Please consider its value to me at least. broha
ps..i would not call the medicine shoppe a mom and pop place/ they have about 6 full timers who service many nearby nursing home facilities, I never have much of a wait, as a matter of fact I hang out jibjabing up to a half hour at times...let me add...i feel as if its a mom and pop place by the way i am treated
May 6, 2009 - 2:21am
#25
i happen to find this topic
i happen to find this topic very interesting because like wood i also take avinza caps and figured that all Rxed caps were filled by an automated machine at the company that marketed the drugs. i thought that the days of a pharmacist actually doing something other than counting out the meds was long gone besides the occasional dividing up of a little oralmorph or codeine cough syrup. i guess there are still a small few that do actually earn their $50 a hour job description. lol
although with the street value of some of these drugs it makes me leary about whether or not you are actually getting the Rxed dose. it would seem that the powders would be much harder for the DEA to catch the corrupt pharm tech. it makes me wonder why you would have to take 2 caps to get the same effect from one tablet. hmmm. though it could just be a matter of quality brand. i would think that a cap would have a more ir effect than a tablet. like the comparison to taking a tylox and a perc of the same mg. in my experience the ty's have a stronger kick to them. while reading this all i could picture in my mind was doc adams of Gunsmoke in the scenes where he is cutting some kind of meds. lol
May 6, 2009 - 7:01pm
#26
i remember scenes where he is compounding an rolling
his own medications on the show, kinda believe he was slipping festus some estacsy at times , he always wanted him to go trout fishing with him
May 6, 2009 - 11:17pm
#27
My point was to Hydro that
My point was to Hydro that in modern pharmacies compounding medications isnt all that tedious since there are machines and non automated appliances to assist in this practise. I am quite suprised that my post brought question as to its point though. In the future when you are active in a thread I will make more of an effort to clearly address my thoughts to the poster that they pertain to.
And yes your avinza is obviously loaded by machine, since it is made in a factory for a multinational corporation and not at the pharmacy. They arent going to have a room full of people stuffing capsules with little beads of morphine at the avinza factory.
May 6, 2009 - 11:36pm
#28
jpm83, not all pharmacies do
jpm83, not all pharmacies do this.This practise is called custom compounding and there is deffinately a premium price on meds that are compounded.The pharamcists who specialise in this practise can actually make capsules, creams, tablets, oral solutions, medicated jellies (think gummy bears but square), medicated hard candy/lollipops (think actiq), I/V solutions, eye drops, suppositories, and I think there is still something else Im forgetting. Basically any form of administration that is available commercially can be duplicated by a custom compounding pharmacy, however they are not limited to just duplicating medications that are commercially available. They can prepare whatever the doctor wrote for as long as there are no fda or dea regulations against it. Oh yea, one thing I can think of about the capsules not working as well as tablets is that in my experience vegetarian capsules for some reason dont dissolve as quickly as gelatin capsules which is what is used in commercial pharmacueiticals, so if the custom compounding pharmacy uses vegetarian capsules there may be some noticialble difference. And for quality of the Oxycodone HCL Powder, to my knowledge Mallinckrodt is the only company that sells the powder to pharmacies.
May 6, 2009 - 11:51pm
#29
i know this
1 winter day i picked up my script of avinza, an placed it in glovebox, i drove around all day it was like 25 miles to home that nite heater a blaring, the coating on a few slightly melted an 1 or 2 was extremly brittle, so store this away from excess heat, Just visulizing a pharmecuical plant with employees stuffing avinza, be like the HBO movie where I believe it was Frank Lucas had his workers nak ed to prevent theft UGGGH
May 7, 2009 - 9:13pm
#30
legal pushers
If any pharmacies are legal pushers that charge way too much it's chain pharmacies such as CVS and Rite-Aid. Mom and Pop pharms are always cheaper on there medication.
May 7, 2009 - 9:59pm
#31
Compounding Legal problems
There are certain legal aspects of compounding that weren't mentioned. A pharmacist CANNOT produce a compound of a commercially available product. This constitutes patent infringement. I know a compounding pharmacy that was audited by the FDA and fined for "Unlicensed Manufacturing" practices. A pharmacist can compound a product that a doctor orders provided a) a doctor provides a written prescription for it, specifying ingredients, concentrations, etc. and b) it is not a replication of an available product. Compounding a lost art among pharmacist, and honestly, it is mostly shunned because the insurance companies do not reinburse pharmacies often for it. I compound for cash at my pharmacy sometimes, mostly creams and ointments. That pharmacy must have a decent set up, because at my pharmacy, we could not compound capsules very economically. By the way, SOLO, that info was extremely impressive. I wouldn't have been able to put that any better myself.
August 11, 2009 - 1:38pm
#32
can you please help?
i found a bottle of pills in my new home these are white capsuls with a blue dot on the tip and has peach color powder in it can someone tell me what this is i was told it was oxycodone sr?can u please help me with this?
Please start a new topic when asking questions...your topic is here..mod3
http://www.pharmer.org/forum/pill-identification/please-help-35
Hi there Goat,
Two days ago i was introduced to a compounding pharmacy for the first time, reason being that..my 30mg Roxicodone cannot be found anywhere currently.
I am very curious about the ingrediants in the capsules they gave me..The capsule is blue and white and the amount of powder inside is much greater than that of a single tablet if it were crushed up, more like two, possibly 3 tablets.
So i am really wondering what else is inside this capsule that i am not aware of. Now correct me if i am wrong here, but the medication i take when its available in the tab form is pure oxycodone with nothing else in it, so what could possibly be in this capsule?
The Bottle says oxycodone on it..also if something extra is added shouldnt i be made aware of that, for instance i use 10/325 Hydrocodone for breakthrough pain and if they added apap, well.. you get my point i would hope. Also the possibility of allergic reactions..i have never taken naloxone myself.
Goat you mentioned they added something to yours to prevent abuse.. i thought they only did that with Oxycontin ER or ER type meds(Extended/time release).
Here is the skinny on what i have noticed in the capsules(compound) vs tablet.
I typically in the mornings when i awake have only ever had to take one tablet for pain relief, still being about a 2 on the pain scale.. depending on what i am doing actually. If i stay still i am ok, but get to 2 from walking etc..
Taking one capsule i am more like 3 and 1 half to 4 with regular walking/movements etc..
I noticed that taking two capsules was more like taking one tablet.
With all that said i can say one thing positive about the capsules. I do not have the Jittery and anxious feelings which is a plus. But i really dont like the idea of having to take two capsules for the affect of one tablet.
I am however grateful that they could help me, though they didnt accept insurance's for compounding, mine were 1.25 US dollars each.
So any thoughts as to what else is inside this capsule i would apreciate.
Thanks In Advance
RF