Pharmer.org

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Joined: 2006-08-22

Ahh, this topic again.

Ahh, this topic again. Norco, I think, has less acetaminophen. I take the Norco 10/325. I have seen Lortab 10/500, and Lorcet 10/650. I think this has been answered/debated quite a few times actually. The difference is in the apap. Vicodin ES, and Lortab have more apap than Norco. Norco, Lortab, Vicodin all have hydrocodone. Oxycodone, as I'm sure you already know, is a completely different medicine. Also, Cymbalta is an anti-depressant that can be used off label for certain types of pain. BTW, did your injections help at all? I have had quite a few in the Lumbar and Sac joints, Facet Injections, and a nerve block. The nerve block provided relief for a short period of time, 3-4 weeks. It didn't make it go away, but it did lessen the pain. With pain meds, the pain is around a 2-3, without around a 5-6, based on my pain clinic's scale. The injections helped to keep it around a 4-5 without pain meds, and a 1-2 with. Just an opinion, love it when an old post blows in from the past.

gtrplayer

November 3, 2006 - 7:32pm

incognito

Posts: 1240
Joined: 2005-05-16

To add to that,Norco comes

To add to that,

Norco comes with Acetaminophen 325mg but available in varying amounts of Hydrocodone, 5mg, 7.5mg, and 10mg.

A true Vicodin is only available in one strength Hydrocodone 5mg Acetaminophen 500mg.

November 3, 2006 - 9:01pm

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

What about the Vicodin with

What about the Vicodin with Oxycontin in it? haha, J/K.

gtrplayer

November 4, 2006 - 12:00am

Stephanie

Posts: 23
Joined: 2006-11-18

Vicodin comes in atleast 2

there is vicodin and vicodin es vicodine is 5 mg and vicodin es is 7.5 mg/ 750 apap I also think there is a vicodine hp which is 10mg not too sure on that on though!!!!!

December 2, 2006 - 12:08am

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

vicodin hp is

vicodin hp is hydrocodone/apap; 10/660 respectively. no vicodine though. I guess I should have explained that. I was being facetious when I said Vicodin with Oxycontin in it. There was a group of posts that contained misleading information to that affect.

gtrplayer

December 2, 2006 - 12:12am

Posts: 7
Joined: 2006-12-03

Hydrocodone = hydrocodone.

Hydrocodone = hydrocodone. Chemistry is very precise...you can't really vary the chemical itself, you can just increase its quantity. The difference with norcos is...there is a higher ratio of hydrocodone to acetaminophen. Norcos have 10 mg of hydrocodone and 325 mg of APAP per pill. The standard blue Lortab 10's have 650mg of acetaminophen. You don't want acetaminophen, apap, or any of that. Trust me, that's not what makes a Vicodin pill.

Norcos are the purest "official" way to take Vicodin. Vicodin was invented to be prescribed to effectively relieve pain without as much risk of addiction and potential for abuse. There is no hydrocodone pill made without some kind of APAP in it. And 15 mg is the maximum allowed by federal law in one pill. Some places apparently sell a 15 mg hydrocodone/80 mg acetaminophen pill..I would be nervous to order that. I personally have never seen a 15mg hydrocone pill with my own eyes. Still, there is no pure hydrocodone pill.

Again, Norcos are the purest way to get hydrocodone from our primary pharmaceutical companies. You can take higher doses, or any dose for that matter, without having to worry about your liver. You don't want to take more than 2000 mg of acetaminophen at once...and still you don't want to take a lot of acetaminophen. That's why the APAP is in there...to prevent pill abuse. If you like your liver, and you also take hydrocodone, you'll want to be prescribed Norcos.

(edited by TeamPharmer)

December 3, 2006 - 3:53am

Posts: 2217
Joined: 2006-03-20

wrong, wrong, wrong,first

wrong, wrong, wrong,

first off, there are hydrocodone formulations made w/out apap, if you need proof i will be glad to show you.

secondly "Norcos are the purest "official" way to take Vicodin".. just the wrong terminology.... norcos are one of the lower mass produced hydrocodonecombos, however, there are lower apap mg amounts mass produced. once again, if you need proof i will be happy to show you.

thirdly "Norcos have 10 mg of hydrocodone and 325 mg of APAP per pill", partially true... they can also have 5/325mg and 7.5/325mg and still be norcos as well.

not to be rude but please be careful not to give out misinformation.

there is nothing wrong w/ not knowing something however, there is something wrong w/ not knowing and saying that you do. this type of misinformation only brings down the credibility and integrity that this site strives to maintain.

all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.

December 3, 2006 - 7:38am

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

I agree with Phisher's

I agree with Phisher's comments 100%. Not only is Norco not the "purest official way to take Vicodin", taking Norco is actually just what it says, taking Norco. A True Vicodin, is 5mg of hydrocodone and 500mgs of acetaminophen, as Incognito has pointed out before. There are different preparations of Hydrocodone and Acetaminophen, as well as hydrocodone and ibuprofen. Several compounding pharmacies can make special order hydrocodone preparations. One that comes to mind is the 10mg/400mg hydrocodone/ibuprofen combo that I have had to have my pharmacy compound for me during the finding what works and what doesn't work period.

As Phisher stated, we need to make sure that we are posting good information and not simply throwing facts and figures around. Lets give TeamPharmer a break and research a little bit before we post.

gtrplayer

December 3, 2006 - 11:59am

Posts: 2217
Joined: 2006-03-20

also we should look at

also we should look at xodol

"Xodol" has 300mg of APAP/10mg of Hydro. It is a newer product and does not have a generic. This is probably why it is not discussed much on this board. Check out the website for Xodol at:
http://xodol.com/home.htm

December 3, 2006 - 12:50pm

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

Also, Reprexain. Another

Also, Reprexain. Another newer drug, less hydrocodone than vicoprofen with 200mg of ibuprofen.

5mg Hydrocodone/200mg Ibuprofen

Reprexain's Website

gtrplayer

December 3, 2006 - 1:50pm

JeckPDX

Posts: 208
Joined: 2005-10-05

I was thinking of Xodol

I was thinking of Xodol right before I saw Phishers post. I had my dr. rx this once after seeing the website and thinking it might be a good alternative to the Lortab 10/500s I was taking at the time. I showed her the graph and she said she would be fine rx'ing it but that it was probably going to be expensive. She also asked the mfg. for some samples. She was right, even with my insurance it was $40- a tier 3 co-pay and that was after the pharm tech haggled with my insurance to get it covered at all. When I thought it might cost me $173.46 for 75 tablets I almost freaked. Luckinly, ins paid and it seemed to work as well as my lortabs did however I could theoretically have taken more withoutn overdoing it on the apap though. After that I switched to norco 10/325 and ended up getting a 7 day xodol sample pack that contained 42 pills.

Also there is a formulation of hydrocodone and homatropine 5mg/1.5mg that comes in tablets in generic (Amide) and brand (Hycodan/Tussigon) From what I understand the hompatropine ingredient is there in sub-therapeutic amounts to discourage deliberate overdose. It is probably about as close to pure hydrocodone as one will find in an everyday rx and because it is used for cough, it comes in a syrup as well. I have known many dr's to prescribe this for pain as well as they know the homatropine content is basiclly minute and so its not a concern. Just my thoughs on the matter and by no means am I an expert.

PDX

December 3, 2006 - 7:15pm

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

Quote:homatropine ingredient

Quote:

homatropine ingredient is there in sub-therapuetic amounts to discourage deliberate overdose

I doubt that. The homatropine works to dry up nasal and breathing passages. There is a Codimal combination that uses less hydrocodone than normal, but no mention of whether it is to combat abuse. As I'm sure you and most others on here know, hydrocodone is great at stopping a cough, as well as treat pain.

gtrplayer

December 3, 2006 - 7:25pm

JeckPDX

Posts: 208
Joined: 2005-10-05

I meant they put that in

I meant they put that in there to make people think they are taking some antihistamine or decongestant and thefefore overdosing on the hydrocodone would not work cuase you'd get too much homatropine which is not the case its there in sub-therapeutic amounts. I read that hycodan syrup and rablets are basically straight hydrocodone as the homatropine is such a small amount its of sub-therapuetic effect. Both products contain 5mg hydrocodone/1.5mg homatropine per 5ml syrup or per pill

December 3, 2006 - 11:01pm

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

No, that's not correct.

No, that's not correct. At 1.5 mg, that is sufficient for it's therapeutic effect. Homatropine is used to clear the nasal passages, it is not an anti-abuse medication. It's also not "thrown in there" so to speak, to make people weary of abusing it. It is a medication that does what it is supposed to do, in combination with a cough supressing medication.

gtrplayer

December 3, 2006 - 11:59pm

JeckPDX

Posts: 208
Joined: 2005-10-05

hmmm

Not to agrue but this is what I have been told by many pharacists who I asked to look more into what homatropine actually does. This is what I was told on more than one occasion. No, I am not an expert nor do I pretend to be, I am just quoting a quote. And yes, homatropine is a drying agent but I agree it is there in negligable amouts. Not trying to argue, just trying to explain.

December 4, 2006 - 3:19pm

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

Just for clarification, a

Just for clarification, a pharmacist told you that the Homatropine was there "To discourage abuse of the product"

Or, the pharmacist told you "There is a low dose of homatropine because we do not want people to abuse Homatropine"

Either way, I think your pharmacist(s) are wrong. I'm not arguing either, but it just doesn't really add up. Maybe one of the top posters can help us out.

gtrplayer

December 4, 2006 - 3:25pm

Posts: 2217
Joined: 2006-03-20

I cannot find any evidence

I cannot find any evidence which suggest that it is there for anti-abuse measures.

as far as i can tell i believe that it is there for theraputic reasons.

as to why a pharmacists would say that... i can only reason that they were trying to convey an anti-abuse mindset to the person they were giving the med to.

there is a lot of medicines that can be abused very easily if one tries. if they intended this to be an anti-abuse messure than i truly believe that they would have chosen something more effective.

w/ all that being said... this is just my two cents. nothing more, nothing less.

December 4, 2006 - 4:09pm

Posts: 7
Joined: 2006-12-03

alright, alright

A) Where are the hydrocodone pills without APAP?

B) When I say Vicodin, I mean anything with hydrocodone in it. Sorry I wasn't picky with my terminology.

C) I have never seen the 5/325 or 7.5/325 Norcos, but what I mean that the 10/325 Norcos, or generic substitutions, are the purest 'mainstream' pills of hydrocodone. I'm sure there are rarer pills out there, and definitely post them, I would be interested in seeing them.

December 6, 2006 - 1:53am

Da Purdue Pharm...

Posts: 355
Joined: 2006-03-21

Hydrocodone pills without

Hydrocodone pills without APAP have to be compounded at a special compounding pharmacy and I believe Hydrocodone above 10mg can be considered a CII Narcotic. The 7.5 and 5/325's are made by just about every pharm out there and yes I would agree with you that the 10/325 Norcos are the purest when it comes to pure Hydrocodone tablets.

My comments posted on this site are the expression of my thoughts pertaining to the questions posted. Tablet Identifying should at best be the only help I can offer.

December 6, 2006 - 2:00am

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

Hydrocodone 5/325

Watson brand hydrocodone/apap 5/325 Hydrocodone 5/325

Watson brand hydrocodone w/apap 7.5/325 Hydrocodone 7.5/325

Both pictures courtesy of Watson Pharmaceutical Company

As to the pure hydrocodone, there is a hydrocodone syrup that has no acetaminophen and no homatropine or decongestant in it. It is similar to OxyIR, I will dig up a link to the site.

And this took me a while to understand, but by purest hydrocodone tablet, you mean that this is the closest product mass produced in tablet form, to pure hydrocodone? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I finally know what you meant.

gtrplayer

December 6, 2006 - 2:08am

Posts: 7
Joined: 2006-12-03

Also the topic of this forum

Also the topic of this forum is "Vicodin vs. Norco vs. Hydrocodone 10/325?" Highlight on the 10/325

December 6, 2006 - 2:02am

Posts: 2609
Joined: 2006-08-22

What you are witnessing, my

What you are witnessing, my friend, is a class pharmer thread. It starts as one thing, and grows into something else. Eventually, someone will see this thread and ask us to identify a completely different tablet. It's no big deal.

gtrplayer

December 6, 2006 - 2:05am

Posts: 7
Joined: 2006-12-03

I wasn't referring to your

I wasn't referring to your comment, I was just being attacked by phisher. Not fun when it's only your second post on the site. And yes, closest to pure in mass produced form is what I meant.

December 6, 2006 - 2:49am