June 19, 2006 - 5:03pm
Well my last thread was deleted, so we'll see how this one goes.. I think it's something that definitely needs to be discussed.. I'm not sure where everyone's from, but I live in the suburbs of Boston.. Painkiller usage is killer round these parts.. But the unthinkable has happened - there are tons of FAKE OC 80's going around Boston and the suburbs! You may think, "I'd be able to tell the difference", but you CAN'T - not by just looking anyway, they are so close to identical, that I have no doubts in my mind that these pills are made by the same company - Purdue Pharma.. The only way you can tell is to scrape a bit of the paint off, and taste it.. I'm sure everyone knows what an OC would taste like, but these have NO TASTE whatsoever.. The rumor is the government is behind it, and I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head why they would want a scenario like this to develop.. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this, without my post getting deleted!
June 19, 2006 - 5:57pm
#2
Very well said Kirby. I
Very well said Kirby.
I agree that Purdue has no incentive to produce counterfeit meds, but has everything to lose. All one has to do is think for themself and ask the question, 'Who is more likely to profit from counterfeit OxyContin, a multi-billion dollar highly regulated pharmaceutical company, or a drug dealer/cartel with a pill press?' It's a pretty easy answer.
If the gov't (DEA and especially the FDA) really wanted the drug off of the market, it wouldn't be very difficult for them to achieve this goal at all. Anyone remember rohypnol, quaaludes, or the very recent Palladone?
June 19, 2006 - 6:10pm
#3
6one7
6one7 == 617 == Boston area code
Clever!
June 19, 2006 - 6:32pm
#4
If you saw these fake ones,
If you saw these fake ones, they are IDENTICAL to the real ones in every way shape and form.. The size, the imprint, the actual paint will peel right off in 1 whole piece if it's been exposed to humidity (your sock).. And they have the exact incredible strength of a real one, and crush up in the same exact manner.. Think about pills that are made underground (ecstasy pills), they are crude looking, and IMO there is no way in ???$* that anyone could have pulled this off (well besides Purdue).. I still have a 1/2 of the fake one, and people are shocked when I show it to them.. I have even heard that the fake ones come in the same bottle! Let's think about WHY the gov't would WANT pills like this out there, and look at a few THEORETICAL scenarios.. (nothing illegal haha)
A local user gets burnt for a fake one - He will obviously be enraged, and what happens if it occurs again, and it becomes very risky.. He may vow to never again buy another OC
A dealer buys 1000 pills, only to find that they're all fake.. He realizes he's out thouasands, and he may feel it's not worth it to risk getting burnt again.. If you stop the dealer, you're the stopping the problem at its source
Another possible scenario is Purdue Pharma made them to give to pharmacies, in the event that they get held up (which has happened 1000's of times nationally) What a better idea than to give the scumbag crook a huge stash of fake pills, much to his dismay!
Again, I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but if you saw these pills in person, you would soon realize that we're not dealing with underground crooks with a "pill press".. An OC is a pill like no other, literally.. And with these bogus ones, you would not have a chance of telling, without tasting it..
June 19, 2006 - 6:44pm
#5
well this certainly is
well this certainly is interesting topic.
i do believe you when you say that there is virtually no difference. there are some extremely talented scam artist out there though. i would personally think that the chance of the scam artists makeing an incredible look-a-like is more likely then a major pharmaceutical company doing this. it would be extemely unethical for purdue to introduce this on a population of unsuspecting citizens. there could potentially be so many lawsuits over legitimate patients suffering. but we really dont know what the story w/ these pills are. perhaps they could be almost 10 years old and exposed to inclement weather and passed their experation date many years over.
it is very puzzleing but unfortunately we probably wont see this one play out.
June 19, 2006 - 6:48pm
#6
hmmm...
Any way you can post an image of these fake pills? Let's see if the experts on this forum can tell the difference. (Especially as it seems several use them for legit reasons and can do a side by side comparison).
June 19, 2006 - 6:51pm
#7
outstanding idea Rawoody. i
outstanding idea Rawoody. i would take the pepsi challenge:)
June 19, 2006 - 6:55pm
#8
The important thing to think
The important thing to think about here, is that government desperately wants to STOP the abuse of these pills as a "street-drug", and a drug to get "high" on.. They are the holy-grail for the pain suffering patient, but on the flip-side, they are the drug of choice of many addicts out there.. Because of the abuse, doctors are getting in trouble, and cutting down on legitimate prescriptions, "doctor-shoppers" could be costing the health care system millions of dollars annually, to only be pumping them out on the street.. But then, on the other side, it's the best thing since sliced bread for pain-management.. So you seriously have to realize that the gov't is definitely thinking of ways to STOP the street abuse, without putting the pain patients in jeopardy.. And what a better idea, then to flood the STREETS with fake pills.. There aren't gonna be any lawsuits against them by legitimate patients, because these fake ones will be nowhere near the pharmacy.. IMO, it is a pretty crazy idea, to do something about the illegal, black-market abuse of them..
June 19, 2006 - 7:02pm
#9
And about the idea that they
And about the idea that they were old pills, and gone bad - no way.. I heard about these last year, and didn't even believe it at first.. It didn't hit home until I unknowingly came across them 1st hand, and what a terrible experience it was! I can take a pic of the piece I have if you guys want..
June 19, 2006 - 7:07pm
#10
i dont know if it would help
i dont know if it would help but pics are always welcome here.
June 19, 2006 - 7:12pm
#11
Well, you certainly have
Well, you certainly have an imagination, and you have gotten responses from the top five posters of this site. You don't have to tell us how often they are abused, or that they are the drug of choice, etc.
If you believe that counterfeiting is impossible and all counterfeits are crumbly, then you obviously haven't seen recent headlines. See this article.
Maybe some other users who haven't posted will have a response that satisfies you. There is a post on here about a gov't conspiracy dealing with methadone, I will dig it up for you if you like. Otherwise I for one am done with this post. Good luck.
June 19, 2006 - 7:17pm
#12
Send the pic
I would love to see a pic side by side and see if our talented *masters* of identification can point out the obvious.
Danielle Nelson
June 19, 2006 - 7:29pm
#13
Side by side is
Side by side is meaningless.. My friend had 100, and about 8 ended up being fake.. About a month ago, I went to get 2, and taste tested.. One was fake.. There is absolutely NO WAY to tell by looking.. The color is absolutely a 100% match.. I'm very detail-oriented, and pay attention to little things.. But I was just thinking of something horrible that could make this situation worse.. Like I said, they have NO taste whatsoever - nothing.. But what if WHOEVER is making these added some aspirin or tylenol, to make them taste bitter.. Then it would really be russian-roulette.. And just think, if that's how things got on the street, you think people would think twice before they thought of buying an OC??
June 19, 2006 - 7:37pm
#14
DEA
June 19, 2006 - 7:47pm
#15
Wow those are TERRIBLE
Wow those are TERRIBLE hahaha.. the ones im talking about are indistinguishable from real ones.. Like I said, I got 2 - looking at them they were identical.. After tasting, 1 was fake..
And about those fake ones from the DEA website.. did you actually read the info? the fake "OC 80's" actually contained 1.5mg of fentanyl! If im not mistaken, that's a huge amount, being that fentanyl is dosed by the microgram..
June 19, 2006 - 8:02pm
#16
That's the Point
That is exactly the point mitomac is making. Distributing fake OCs with fentanyl can be extremely deadly.
Fentanyl is much stronger than OxyContin and can be absolutely fatal even if only a small amount is ingested. Maybe you are cognizant of the subtle differences of appearance and/or color, but most people are not. And it's possible the DEA is not aware of exact duplicates that would even fool you.
We are here to warn you and help others.
Thanks mitomac.
I'm not a pharmacist or a medical doctor. This message is not medical advice nor is it an offer to provide medical advice. All drug identifications should be validated by a licensed MD or pharmacist.
June 20, 2006 - 8:15pm
#17
Did he mention that they
Did he mention that they look exactly the same as the real ones?
June 20, 2006 - 8:33pm
#18
So much...
...for incog being done with this post. LOL Yeah, the OP said they look EXACTLY like the real deals, but only no taste on the inside. He states that the Government is trying to kill all the addicts by taking away their drugs. I say that it's more likely to be another scam, like selling all pills with a scripted V on them as vicodin.
June 21, 2006 - 12:14am
#19
yeah I was kidding about
yeah I was kidding about the mentioning it part, just because he said it over and over and over.
June 21, 2006 - 5:31am
#20
i guess what i am wondering
i guess what i am wondering is, do they look the same as the real ones?
June 21, 2006 - 8:30am
#21
Hey kid...
When you say your friend "got 100 of them", does that mean they came directly from the pharmacy that way, or he "got" them from another source? And then you say that you went and got 2 of them, so that means he's dispensing medicine HIS medicine to YOU. Call me dumb, but that's illegal. In my opinioin, if you end up with a fake pill, that's what you deserve. Not to say that I hope it hurts you, I don't mean that at all, but maybe it will teach someone a lesson. I'm sure there are plenty of other websites where you can whine about getting ripped off and not have your post deleted, just not here.
July 17, 2006 - 6:53pm
#22
very difficult to tell
Has anyone got a bad taste in the throat, makes you want to gag, this is the only thing I think is different. coating tastes and looks the same. BOSTON ISNT TO FAR FROM VA. I dont know
July 17, 2006 - 9:38pm
#23
Fake OC
We are a long way from you very long but, we have seen and heard about this fake OC and from our research they come from Mexico!!
Be Careful what you take from someone elses hands man!!!
You never know what you might be getting!!!
kb42
July 18, 2006 - 10:16am
#24
underground or mexico
I've heard of semi potent mexican OC's bought from the internet, but think about this. what costs more on the street, OC or X, OC's right? Maybe the underground pill pressers realized they can make a lot more money by pressing oc's. The ones I got had the same tasting coating and looked the exact same, but the taste was bitter, sort of like the football ones. They also make you gag a bit and do not taste the same. The ones I got felt like they had no oxycodone in them at all, better off taking an aspirin I suppose. Purdue has known about counterfeit O's for some time and now have a way to track the bottles going to pharmacies (you can find this in a search pretty easy). I dont know what else to say.
July 18, 2006 - 11:05am
#25
So they look real right?
So they look real right?
July 18, 2006 - 11:48am
#26
exactly
They look the exact same, no pro needed. No one, I dont care what there credentials are would be able to tell the difference. Only the taste inside and effect are different.
July 18, 2006 - 11:51am
#27
Mexico
Thats what I've heard as well, but do they contain any oxycodone in them or just some white powder? The ones I got felt like they didn't have anything in them.
July 18, 2006 - 12:05pm
#28
potency
If they have the same potency and look the exact same then what makes you think it was fake. The ones I got looked the same, peeled or rubbed off the same, everything was the exact same execpt the effect. These seemed to have no oxycodone in them at all. purdue is now tracking their bottles because of counterfiting. what is the difference in the half of the one that u have? I'm not really understanding why anyone would care if they look, crush and have the same effect. I dont think anyone would care.
July 18, 2006 - 12:18pm
#29
obviously there must be some
obviously there must be some differences if they have no effect on someone as to where the real ones do have some effect. i am sure that there are alot of pros that could tell the difference, i.e. biochemist. unless of course you were reffering to just the astetics?
at any rate it really doesnt matter. i am fairly confident that this site is for the legitimate use of legit meds so in all reallity this is a non-issue, w/ all respect to those who have posted.
July 18, 2006 - 7:43pm
#30
aesthetics
Yes I was referring to aesthetics! If you go online and read the article about the two big counterfeit seizures in Boston Logan airport and JFK it says that they look identical, but that the chemical analysis shows no oxycodone. I agree a biochemist could tell the difference but I don't know any that can analyze a pill from a picture, do you? Also it doesn't take a biochemist to tell you that the strongest pain killer out there, next to fentanyl, isn't real when it has no analgesic affect what so ever on a person.
(edited by TeamPharmer)
July 18, 2006 - 9:15pm
#31
Yes, there are fakes. They
Yes, there are fakes. They do nothing. looks almost exact like the original. These are coming from a huge counterfeit operation in China. They are being supplied to the pharmacys by the wholesalers. They are not from Purdue at all. This chinese company is making dups of all major drugs, Viagara, lipitor, etc. There are many ppl getting bad meds and that is not good. There was a story about it on Dateline, look on the website - interesting story. Easiest way to tell the diff is taste - some of the fakes are made with drywall (yuk).
July 18, 2006 - 11:28pm
#32
thats interesting to sread
thats interesting to sread
July 19, 2006 - 7:03am
#33
"doesn't take a biochemist
"doesn't take a biochemist to tell you that the strongest pain killer out there, next to fentanyl"
Wrong! you missed a couple there. but i digress.
i guess if there are people dumb enough to buy drugs off the black market then that is what they deserve. and that is really what is up.
July 19, 2006 - 12:49pm
#34
what did i miss
Did you read the end of that sentence? you might have understood what it said. The entire forum is talking about oxycodone, you know the active ingredient in oxycontin. What did I miss? Raw opium or 100 pure heroin, maybe we can take a time machine back to the early 1900's and get some heroin from Bayer. This is a forum on prescription drugs. so please indulge me as to what is stronger gram for gram than fentanyl? The only drug more potent is Carfentinal (Wildnil), which is an analogue of fentanyl, which is used to tranquilize large animals, so please forgive me. I didn't think we were getting into veterinarian medicines on here. AND THATS WHATS UP!!!
July 19, 2006 - 12:57pm
#35
crazy world
yeah, I saw some of that dateline special, but didn't know all that. Drywall ay' no wonder they taste bad. By the way I love the nickname, my friend has the same one. Purdue knows about it and now they are putting radio frequency devices into there bottle tags to track shipments to pharmacies. Didn't see this one coming.
July 19, 2006 - 1:58pm
#36
please correct me if i am
please correct me if i am wrong but from my understanding of the quote i posted of yours basically says that oxycodone is the next strongest thing to fentanyl which is incorrect.
here is some that you missed which show that it isnt the next strongest to Fent
| Morphine IV/IM | 40 | .75 mg | 4 | 2.5 mg |
| Hydromorphone | 50 | .6 mg | 5 | 2 mg |
| Oxymorphone | 70 | 0.4 mg | 7 | 1.4 mg |
| Levorphanol | 80 | 0.26 mg | 8 | .8 mg |
| Buprenophine | 400 | 0.075 mg | 40 | .25 mg |
| Fentanyl | 500-1000 | 0.03-0.06 mg | 50-100 | 0.1-0.2 mg |
| Carfentanyl*** | 1,000,000 | 30 pcg | 100,000 | 100 pcg |
*from rawoodys comparison chart.
a little tid bit for ya;)
July 19, 2006 - 2:10pm
#37
bed time
alright lets put this to bed because we don't know each other and Im sure that you are a swell guy or girl, probably guy. U are correct that that is what I meant, but the point was that when a strong narcotic painkiller such as oxycontin has no effect on a person whatsoever then it is fairly easy to tell if it is fake. much love my friend.
July 19, 2006 - 4:31pm
#38
i concur. the whole thing is
i concur. the whole thing is kind of silly and i was just having fun w/ it. it is completely ridiculous that i keep responding to this thread that i swore off a month ago, but it is hard to resist the fun.
much love to you freind. i knew what you meant anyway. also i do believe that someone is counterfiting them, just not purdue as the OP insisted.
its all good. and i agree it should be laid to rest:)
July 19, 2006 - 10:09pm
#39
I dont understand
How did you know it was fake? If it looked, peeled, crushed and was as potent as a real one. IF the counterfeits are as good as the real ones than who would care. I'm confused
Break it down for me brother. They did seize a huge shipment coming into Boston thought.
August 3, 2006 - 1:27am
#40
Of cource their are fake oc;s
Many of these rogue chinese companies are making "fake" pills. I shouldn't say fake- I should say counterfeit. They contain the proper amount of what they should i.e oxycodone but they are not made by Purdue or whoever.
So that's why you are seeing the drop in prices for oc. They are "fake".
Look at this company in China: www.bccoc.biz and look at these tec's they make:
http://www.imagesocket.com/view/tec1716.JPG
And just plain ones:
http://www.badongo.net/pic/241504
Rumors are they make oxycontins so why can't their be "fakes"?
August 3, 2006 - 11:20am
#41
where you at
What part of the country are you from benzofiend? Have you gotten any of these fake but similar "OC's"? Just curious. what prices are they going for?
August 3, 2006 - 1:11pm
#42
in reference to benzofiends
in reference to benzofiends post;
your post shows nothing to cooberate this theory other than unrelated pills.
this company may or may not make the "fake" pills in question. we were looking for hard proof that this does indeed exist. but instead all we have seen is heartbreak stories of people that were dumb enough to buy pills off the street.
all thoughts and opinions expressed are those of my own and should not be mistaken for medical advice. i am not a doctor nor a pharmacist. all medical questions should be answered by a licensed pharmacist, doctor, or primary care manager.
August 3, 2006 - 8:17pm
#43
CO, USA They are selling
CO, USA
They are selling the 40's for $7 each. They aren't bad just not made from purdue.
That company makes a LOT of fakes . If you notcied an explosion of perks in your area I would wager it comes from BCCOC.
They aren't real "fakes" because they contain the medicine they are supposed to but fake nnetheless.
August 4, 2006 - 10:34pm
#44
generics??
I guess maybe in colorado you arnt used to getting generics but im from northern new jersey and most of the time generics are favored over brand name oxy's or perks. There were quite a few fake 80's goin around up here and they werent generics they said OC 80 and the only way you could tell them apart was if you had a real one and a fake one side by side. If generics are available i choose them over just to be sure im not getting counterfeit pills because from what i hear, they are even being distributed in major drug stores.
August 9, 2006 - 4:36am
#45
New here, Just found this Thread
That is strange indeed, but I believe Kirby is right. But I will say, that I have a friend on OC 40's, and 3 years ago he got a bottle of 90, and he said about 1/3 of the bottle seemed like placebos, he said tap water helped his pains as well as 1/3 of the bottle did?
Go Figure? Maybe there was just an even once in a blue moon fluke in QC in the factory and some pills with just filler got out?
Or it could have been in his head too?
Hope that helped,
Walter (catch22)
August 30, 2006 - 6:11pm
#46
i wish i would have seen
i wish i would have seen this topic when it started. the 617 is my hometown, born and raised, and indeed oxy's are an epidemic there. Now iv'e been tattooing in Cali for 2 years now and mexico being right around the way, i come across so many different pills espically with the clientelle in my shop. It is well known around here to examine any pain med from anywhere because of the vast
Well, if your previous post was deleted, there must be a reason or reasons. We have very few rules for posters to follow because we think most of us are polite adults. Maybe you discussed something illegal or used profanity or acted immature in some other way. You can read the rules here:
http://www.pharmer.org/node/78
We are not here to discuss methods of 'beating the system' so to speak.
I don't know about your previous post, but your current post is perfectly fine.
If there are fake OxyContins circulating, that's an excellent topic to talk about. I doubt the government is behind this, but it's fine to talk about the government and its control over drugs or food for that matter. We talk about the FDA and DEA often. And Purdue Pharma would have no incentive to produce fake OxyContins. The company is very ethical and spends millions every year for researching new pain medications and educating the public on the proper way of taking pain medication so no one is harmed.
One of the reasons we are here is to identify pills for others so they know what they have and don't ingest anything that might be dangerous to their health. Another reason is that we don't want anyone scammed. We realize people will 'find' certain things thinking it's a narcotic or something else when often it's an OTC drug. And if a drug is fake, we certainly want to know that so others are alerted.